У Пят, 30/03/2007 у 21:55 +0400, Alexander Cajcyc піша:
I am bloody serious now!
I remember User:Alexander Gouk planning to introduce some solution, but I don't
remember if he really did. Can you give a link to your proposal?
http://be-x-old.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B1%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BA%
D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B5:%D0%93%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%9E
%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%
B0#.D0.A1.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B1.D0.B0_.D1.80.D1.8D.D1.84.D0.BB.D0.B5.D0.BA.D1.81.D1.96.D1.96_.D0.BD.D0.B0.D0.BA.D0.BE.D0.BD.D1.82_.D1.80.D1.8D.D0.B3.D1.96.D1.81.D1.82.D1.80.D0.B0.D1.86.D1.8B.D1.96_.D0.92.D1.96.D0.BA.D1.96.D0.BF.D0.B5.D0.B4.D1.8B.D1.96_.D0.B4.D0.BB.D1.8F_.D0.B0.D1.84.D1.96.D1.86.D1.8B.D0.B9.D0.BD.D0.B0.D0.B3.D0.B0_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.B0.D0.B2.D0.B0.D0.BF.D1.96.D1.81.D1.83
Gouk was working on an
"impossible-to-create" project - "convertor". You
know that's impossible to implement.
And I personnally was always for splitting into
classical and official sectors within one and the same Wikipedia instead of splitting in
two separate wikipedias or, especially, deleting the old wiki for the sake of a new one!
So where were you all recently? I've heard lots of times for the last
few days that "millions" of people "didn't know about the problem"
or
"always supported our solutions":)
> czalex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ihar Hrachyshka <ihar.hrachyshka(a)gmail.com>
> To: Alexander Cajcyc <czalex(a)bk.ru>ru>, wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:10:10 +0300
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
>
> > У Пят, 30/03/2007 у 17:13 +0400, Alexander Cajcyc п ша:
> > > In that case a solution has already been found long ago, and the question
is purely a technical one: one and the same Wiki, but with articles separated into
"classical" and "official". As far as I know, this has already been
implemented in other Wikis (e.g. Serbian?). So why not just doing the same with Belarusian
Wikipedia?
> >
> > As you can
remember I've provided such a solution long time ago but
> > there was a one big Ignore on the Main_Page on this solution talk. And
> > now - when all is so bad - you tell us the same words.
> > I don't want to think that you are making compromises only after the
> > power-punch from Wikimedia authority. Are you speaking serious now?
> >
> > >
czalex
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
> > > To: "Alexander Cajcyc" <czalex(a)bk.ru>ru>,
wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:03:43 +0200
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
> >
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > There is no choice when it comes to the names of the projects. The
standard
> > > > is explicit; a private label is indicated by an -x- at the right place
in
> > > > the label.
> > >
> > > >
Having two projects is also something I would be against; it does not bring
> > > > collaboration, it does not bring NPOV. You have to get your act
together and
> > > > history shows that you now have to compromise big time. It has been
> > > > indicated that the actual differences are less than what you find in
English
> > > > ... all the more reason to insist on collaboration.
> > >
> > > >
Thanks,
> > > > GerardM
> > >
> > > >
On 3/30/07, Alexander Cajcyc <czalex(a)bk.ru> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everybody
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Gerard that we must not deepen the conflict and
hould find a
> > > > > solution that would satisfy all of us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are we all, no matter the orthography, interested in the
representation of
> > > > > Belarusian language in Wikipedia and in the usage of this tool
for the sake
> > > > > of all Belarusian speakers no matter whether they prefer the
classical
> > > > > orthography or the official one? Yes, we all are. So let's
find some
> > > > > compromise.
> > > > >
> > > > > I propose to leave the official orthography wikipedia where it is
now, OK.
> > > > >
> > > > > But you just CAN'T allow the 6000 classical Belarusian Wiki
articles to
> > > > > get lost! The fact that the Belarusian Wiki was created as a Wiki
in
> > > > > Taraskievica is a illustrative example to that the classical
orthography has
> > > > > an important place in Belarus now, especially amoung people who
really DO
> > > > > speak the language on an every-day basis, while you can even see
that most
> > > > > forum conversations in the official-orthography Wikipedia are
being hold
> > > > > in... Russian [what is not bad itself].
> > > > >
> > > > > So an ideal solution would be to rename
be-x-old.wikipedia.org
to, e.g.,
> > > > >
be-classic.wikipedia.org or
bel.wikipedia.org and to open it for
editing
> > > > > so that it could coutinue its effective functioning.
> > > > >
> > > > > regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > czalex
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: GerardM <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > To: wikipedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:23:35 +0200
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hoi,
> > > > > > Please consider that if you have an option to work together,
that you
> > > > > have
> > > > > > to talk. That you have to give and take. That you will
always feel that
> > > > > you
> > > > > > give more than what you get.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are two groups of people who have fought each other in
a space
> > > > > where
> > > > > > such fights are not appreciated. Assertions have been made
about "your"
> > > > > > language, "your" orthography, by trash talking the
"other" language /
> > > > > > orthography. You do not get any sympathy in this way. When
you want to
> > > > > > achieve something, it will be more beneficial to be seen to
cooperate
> > > > > and to
> > > > > > find some coexistence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When this coexistence is hard to get because of the enmity
that has been
> > > > > > created in the past, it only means that you will have to
give even more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Gerard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/30/07, Monk <monkbel(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How can anybody say that Yury Tarasievich and his
project is about
> > > > > > > language, not about politics, after such a letter? No
facts, just
> > > > > > > insults and speculations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are an entity, yes, set out to destroy the
existing Belarusian
> > > > > > > > language and culture and replace it with your
version -- okay, your
> > > > > > > > right. But get yourself your own blessed language
code for that.
> > > > > > > This speculation with such aggressive words doesn't
help your case, it
> > > > > > > can only make your case worse. I don't even hope
any more that you
> > > > > > > understand that your outrageous insults are absurd. You
just dig a pit
> > > > > > > for yourself by your own hands.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > P.S.
> > > > > > > > Some years ago I witnessed a creation of one of
such sites you call
> > > > > > > > "proofs". So, there was 1 tech and 1
editor, who re-edited
> > > > > everything
> > > > > > > > incoming (like 90+% or even 99% in standard
Belarusian and Russian)
> > > > > > > > into his flavour of "classic". It was
politics. Thousands pages (and
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > mean real thousands, there was sort of 4800 or so)
of pages. And...
> > > > > > > > grant money. I could add -- near to zero interest,
excepting the
> > > > > > > > indexing bots.
> > > > > > > Another great example of lies. Where could they get any
incoming in
> > > > > > > "norm" if people just don't write in it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Monk.
> > > > > > >
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