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GerardM wrote:
Hoi, For your information, formally Mark does not have authority. There are few people who are seen to be authorortive. He is however one of the people who knows a lot about what languages are. In this case the point he made was great. I was accepted as such.
Now, when you complain about Mark, I want to point out two things;
- What is your authority on this subject that you challenge him?
I was not trying to assert my own authority (of which I have none). Rather, I was reading the thread and I saw Mark and Manuel having an exchange, with Manuel ending up backing down, and Mark accepting his proposal as though Mark was the final decision maker. Since I may at some point be interested in starting a new language wikipedia (though not for another year at least), I was troubled by the fact that no one else on the list was at all active in the discussion.
- You may have noticed that Mark has been really good in not going
overboard lately.
Really? I would point you to the recent Moldovan wikipedia discussion as disproof. While not 'overboard' for all meanings of the term, it would have been nice to see a little more restraint in Mark's messages (although definitely more restraint could have been showed by the other participants)
Most often I welcome the points that Mark makes. Certainly when he makes his point once they are the best that can be heard.
As to the Moldovan fracas, it has definetly not been the worst project that we have seen. Some projects were / are much worse. They are just not that "in the public eye".
Thanks, GerardM
On 3/9/06, Silas Snider swsnider@gmail.com wrote: Question: What authority do you, Mark, have over the creation of a new wikipedia? Are you a developer? I don't seem to ever see you contributing patches, etc. on wikitech-l. In fact, almost all the posts that I can see of yours involve some kind of discussion over orthography or languages in various wikipedias, especially when discussing closing one.
My point is: on what grounds do you consider it your job to be the
arbiter of when a proposal for wikipedia creation is good enough?
Sincerely, Silas Snider
Mark Williamson wrote:
Yes, thanks.
Mark
On 09/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
I understand you point of view, Mark.
I'll try to get this fixed and will come back again within a month, or so. Does this seem fair to you?
Thanks & regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:50 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
I know that Portuguese is th esecond official language of East Timor.
That's not what I asked.
It doesn't inspire confidence that most of the pages in the test wiki are in Portuguese, when you are requesting a Wikipedia for Tetum.
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote:
Mark, Portuguese is the second official language of East Timor and is regarded
as
a reference for Tetum. In the official Tetum, a huge amount of vocabulary comes directly from Portuguese.
Another reason is that, as far as I know, several of the supporters of
this
project are Timorese university students studying in Portugal. So, the
easy
way, would be to go to the Portuguese Wikipedia and copy a few articles,
in
order to translate them later.
Anyway, in the case of a testpage certain experiences must be tolerated. Things will be different once the Tetum Wikipedia becomes real...
Regards, Manuel de Sousa
-----Mensagem original----- De: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] Em nome de Mark Williamson Enviada: quinta-feira, 9 de Março de 2006 3:30 Para: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Assunto: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for Tetum language - reminder
One thing I noticed is that most of the testpages are in Portuguese. Why?
Mark
On 08/03/06, Manuel de Sousa manuel.sousa@tvtel.pt wrote: > Last January 14 and 15 I sent two msg to this group >
(http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043424.html
> and >
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2006-January/043428.html),
> asking for the creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum language, one of the two > official languages of Timor-Leste (or East Timor), the youngest independent > nation in the world (the other official language is Portuguese). > > In the meantime, this project got 15 supporters, 8 of them
native-speakers
> of Tetum (see: >
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Approved_requests_for_new_languages#Tetum_.28
> 15_support_.5B8_native_speakers.5D.29). > > Subsequently, I created a test page > (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/tet) that presently has a dozen > articles in Tetum and a few others in the process of being translated to > Tetum. > > Anyway, I find it difficult to attract Tetum-speaking people to work in
a
> Wikipedia that is still in a test phase. So, I wonder if any developer
can
> inform me if this new language version of Wikipedia is about to the set
up
> or not. > > I'm absolutely convinced the Wikipedia in Tetum is viable, and that it
can
> be an exceptional tool for East-Timorese to promote their national language > internally and abroad. And I'm not alone in this feeling. Giuseppe d'Angelo > said in a subsequent msg: "One can't understate what such a venture [the > creation of a Wikipedia in Tetum] would do to the self-esteem of a whole > people. It will take a while to get going, given their problems with
basic
> infrastructure, but I am certain that it would eventually succeed. There is > also likely to be a thriving community of Tetum speakers in nearby
Darwin,
> where they are likely to have better infrastructure - it's just a case
of
> getting the message through to them." > > I will do my best to get the message to the East-Timorese in Australia,
in
> Portugal, in Indonesia, etc. -- as well as in East Timor. But, first of all, > you [the developers] gotta set up this new Wikipedia. > > Plz let me know where are we standing of this. > > Thanks & regards, > Manuel de Sousa
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