Ok, there are some basic facts, that the request didn't provide.
1. Most of the articles on no: is on either bokmål or riksmål.
2. The debate started on nn:, and is probably an attempt to claim (or
deny the other part use of the no; domain)
3. A split (practicaly a move) would give bokmål (the dominant
language) a unfamiliar name.
I'd like to request a new Wikipedia for the Friulian language.
It has an ISO 639-2 code, although I don't recall what it is (perhaps fur?)
Friulian is spoken in Italy, and calls itself "Furlan".
As to whether I have any actual support from speakers of this language:
"Sorry for the delay in my answer. I would be very interested in
Friulian language; can you help? So far I found just another user who
wants to work on it. The main problem is that I don't have a pc
currently so I'm seldom online --Klenje 19:18, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)"
(from my talk page)
This would be my third request for an Italian minority language
Wikipedia... having requested only a few Wikis, I find it quite
strange that three of them should be Italian minority languages (1.
Sardinian sc:, 2. Sicilian scn:, 3. Friulian)
I'd like to propose a new Wikipedia: "the multilingual wikipedia"
Some ideas about how to do that are on
I would be very interested in getting the multilingual features of
oddmuse (the colored background, the language filters) ported to
Mediawiki and then start working on two things:
A) Elaborate the engine to make it work for multilingual pages: language
filters also in the edit mode, inclusion of automatic pretranslation in
a new translate-mode, etc.
B) Start making the "multilingual wikipedia". Kinda getting people into
the fun of translation.
Hopefully this wouldn't require a fork of Mediawiki. Unfortunately I
have a vage feeling that it does. In that case I propose as a name for
the multilingual Mediawiki engine: MMediawiki ;)
But who knows? Maybe things are easier than I think?
I'd like to request a new Wikipedia for the Norwegian language.
I realize that there already exist two Norwegian Wikipedias, but I
think we need a third,
and possibly a fourth. No, I am not joking. Please read on to see
why I propose this.
The Norwegian language has two official written forms: nynorsk and bokmål.
(Note: The names of languages are never capitalized in Norwegian.)
One should be aware that neither bokmål nor nynorsk is a *spoken*
language in itself
(except in official news broadcasts, poetry and theatre plays), as
they are two separate
*written* forms (Norwegian: "målform") of the same spoken language, *norsk*.
Both nynorsk and bokmål have exactly the same status as official
of Norway. The grammars and vocabularies are distinct, but not
They differ more than e.g. British English from American English, but
are not more
different from each other than e.g. Swedish and Danish, meaning that
if you *master*
one of them, you can also *understand* the other. (Furthermore, all
studied both written forms in school.)
There is also a third way to write norsk, called *riksmål*, which,
although abandoned as
an official form in 1929 because it was considered too conservative,
still has quite a few
The Current Wikipedia Situation
There exists a Wikipedia in norsk: http://no.wikipedia.org/
but since Wikipedia is inherently written and not oral, that Wikipedia
a mixture of
all three written forms of Norwegian, which can sometimes be confusing.
The front page there states:
– Bidragsytere kan skrive på alle norske målformer
(bokmål, riksmål og nynorsk).
– Contributors may write in all Norwegian written language forms
(bokmål, riksmål, and nynorsk).
The articles (even the help and instruction pages) are randomly
written in three different
ways, sometimes even mixed, creating a somewhat chaotic impression.
this certainly makes that Wikipedia difficult to read for foreigners
who have learned only
one written form of the Norwegian language.)
In July this year a separate Wikipedia in pure nynorsk was started:
It has already received more than a thousand articles.
But still there is no Wikipedia in bokmål, nor in riksmål, although
both are used
(together with nynorsk) in the norsk Wikipedia. This situation is not fair.
I request a new Wikipedia in only bokmål, at the address
(The ISO code for bokmål is "nb" [or "nb_no"]. For nynorsk it is "nn"
Today, http://nb.wikipedia.org/ just points to http://no.wikipedia.org/
(I do not know if riksmål has its own ISO language code, and since I
am not a user
of riksmål, I will leave it to others to request a Wikipedia
exclusively for riksmål.)
As I see it, it will not be necessary to translate all articles
between nynorsk and bokmål;
we can use #REDIRECT or similar means to bind them together, since all
are able to read both written language forms (as well as English,
Swedish, and Danish).
But at least the user interface will be pure bokmål in one Wikipedia,
pure nynorsk in the
other, giving users a real choice.
I see the creation of a bokmål Wikipedia as the logical next step to
now that a separate nynorsk Wikipedia has been established and is thriving.
Why not just use the existing Wikipedia?
One could propose to "clean up" the norsk Wikipedia by moving all
nynorsk articles to
the nynorsk Wikipedia, but I am sure that this would require a long
and heated debate
among the users. And what about the riksmål parts? I think it best
to leave the norsk
variant alone (allowing both nynorsk and riksmål there as well as
bokmål), start separate
bokmål and nynorsk Wikipedias, and use links and #REDIRECTs to make it
easier in the beginning.
Another reason to break out of the old Wikipedia for Norwegian, is
that there have been
complaints about certain administrators there abusing their power to
block other users
from introducing changes that contradict the personal views of those
(I have not experienced this, but some indignant users have turned to
me for help.)
Rather than quarreling about this or start accusing people, I thought
I'd offer to start
a new encyclopedia where there will be no censorship (as long as the
texts are in bokmål
and not downright offensive), and where democratic guidelines
regarding content are
adhered to, as well as the principle of neutrality.
Who I am
I am a Web programmer by profession, and I have created several wikis,
both in my
work and in my spare time, although never a Wikipedia before. I am
also an active
contributor to existing Wikipedias, especially the Esperanto variant:
I am very familiar with CVS and other ways of collaboration on
distributed software projects.
I am prepared to do the translation of the interface (should be easy,
since I can base it
on two existing Norwegian Wikipedias). I am also prepared to be an
a bokmål Wikipedia, write guidelines, participate in discussions, and
offer my assistance
to new users. I will gladly accept anybody's help with the
administration, if some of the
norsk (or nynorsk) Wikipedia administrators would like to become
Just a heads-up on my experience putting wikipedia down in schools.
Recently, I have been working with the Shuttleworth Foundation,
who put Linux Thin Client (K12LTSP) classrooms down in South African
township schools. I augment their install by adding internet (email,
offline web cache) and wikipedia. I have done 14 schools to date.
I still install the Mar2004 version. It takes long enough, and it is (only) five CDs.
To recap, wikipedia needs:-
* The software (mediawiki - currently Andy's RPM, tiny, needs apache, php)
* a mysql server with snapshot (the text, which I install as a binary file for speed,
but is distributed as a mysql database dump - compressed)
I also package this as an RPM.
* the pictures (optional) - 256 RPMs, to be able to pack it on CDs.
It (Mar2004) will fit on one DVD. It is all (to first order of magnitude) pictures.
The mysql database dump is CD-sized, probably until January 2005.
Wikipedia, in 6 months, has doubled in size - db/pics from 700M/2.5G to
1.2G/5G. Rapidly moving out of CD space, passing through DVD space, it
is now a (mailed) hard drive.
I am now putting the database on the main LTSP server (at a school),
because I think it belongs there. However, I /really/ want the whole
thing to be on one computer, so I am running tests - one school has
the mysql server on the main (dual P4, 2Ggig), another has the DB on
the (smaller, P3, 256M) wizzy server.
At both schools, mediawiki and the pictures are on the wizzy server.
The pictures (currently) must reside on the computer running the php
software - mediawiki. Though they take a lot of space, it is not a
difficult job - easily handled by a small computer with enough disk
(Mar2004 needs about 4Gig).
Mediawiki (as supplied) does a full text search on the database if
there is not a hit on the encyclopedia article. This is (incredibly)
expensive, and I turn it off now.
I envisage a computer hard drive, mailed to people/schools, that you put
into your (old) computer. It boots, discovers hardware, (like kudzu,
open source from redhat) at boot, and delivers a wikipedia snapshot.
An upgrade is:-
* find another school/home/computer for an old one (hard disk)
* get your new one
I dual-boot to Ubuntu now - I am most impressed. The Shuttleworth
Foundation will be moving over to Ubuntu in the future, so I
need to learn how to make .debs.
I am keen to grab the wikipedia front page, do a minor edit to
add a BASE tag to <HEAD> to redirect links to the local wikipedia
This is a call for help on the Kashmiri Wikipedia. There has been some
conflict recently over which scripts ought to be used. If anyone has
any experience with, or knowledge of, the Kashmiri language, I invite
you to participate in the discussion at
Currently there seem to be only two users on this Wikipedia. One is Rk
kaul, and the other is Node-ue. Rk kaul has accused Node-ue of
vandalism since he is apparently replacing pages with some sort of
unintelligible machine translation.
An additional problem on this Wikipedia is that Node-ue has been
editing under various sockpuppet accounts, and also anonymously. He
managed to deceitfully gain adminship for two days after creating the
account "User:Akka Akka" which was desysopped after complaints about
his behaviour. He is also editing under the account "User:Bbbbbbbbb"
and being generally abusive to the other user on the wiki.
If anyone is able to help or offer suggestions, it would be much appreciated.
I'm doing a project for an Irish science fair (The Young Scientist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esat_Young_Scientist_Exhibition ) about
radically different methods of building online projects, namely a
conventional approach and the wiki approach. As part of this I'd like
to get a short interview done by email with as many wikipedians as
possible. I would contact people this week or at the end of the month.
Anybody willing to participate in the interview can contact me at this
John Collison (AKA Ludraman)