Wikipedia-l November 2004

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

92 participants
90 discussions

Akka Akka
by Anthere 07 Nov '04

07 Nov '04

Per Danny request, due to rupture of an agreement for node not to edit under Akka Akka name, I blocked Akka Akka on ks project for 24 hours. I have a neutral position with regards to this matter. Any one may revert the block if there is a problem. Ant

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Request to add ang to tracking
by James R. Johnson 07 Nov '04

07 Nov '04

Hello, I'd like to request that the ang wikipedia be added to the tracking that the other wikipedias now enjoy (users, pages, edits, etc.). Thanks, James

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Wikimedia Licensing Question
by AV Dictionary Project 07 Nov '04

07 Nov '04

I would like to use text from the English language versions of the Wikipedia/Wiktionary in a derivative work (an English language dictionary of audiovisual industry terms). The GNU Free Documentation License confuses me (and I'm trying to avoid having to hire a lawyer), so I am not sure if I can use the Wikimedia material as intended (since my intended use does not exactly follow one of the examples given). Would the following be acceptable? * Various articles from the Wikipedia and Wiktionary would be used as the basis of a derivative work (specifically, individual entries in an audiovisual dictionary). This work will also contain original material and other materials licensed from third parties. Wikimedia articles would never be reproduced verbatim in their entirety. Articles based on Wikimedia material would represent a small fraction of the overall work (there are already in excess of 10,000 identified terms without making direct use of any Wikimedia materials). * Rather than identify each use of Wikimedia material (either accompanying each derived entry or in an exhaustive list at the end, which the proposed format would not accommodate), I would acknowledge the Wikimedia origin of some of the dictionary's material in two ways: 1. Citations in the bibliography indicating that Wikimedia material was used in the development of the dictionary (the traditional citation for fair use of copyrighted material in an academic work): Wikipedia, St. Petersburg, Florida: Wikimedia Foundation, en.wikipedia.org. Wiktionary, St. Petersburg, Florida: Wikimedia Foundation, en.wiktionary.org. 2. Entries in the section of the acknowledgements that identifies copyrighted material incorporated into the dictionary under license from the copyright holder: Wikipedia: The Free Encyclopedia (en.wikipedia.org) © Wikimedia Foundation, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights GNU Free Documentation License, www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html Wiktionary: a wiki-based Open Content dictionary (en.wiktionary.org) © Wikimedia Foundation, en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Copyrights GNU Free Documentation License, www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html * Those portions of the work licensed from third parties and entries that do not contain Wikimedia material would not fall under the GNU Free Documentation License, but would remain under the ownership of the respective copyright holders. * If the dictionary is made available online, it would be formatted using standard HTML and the URLs noted above would be presented as live links. Most likely, it will be published as a printed book. So, can I use Wikimedia material under these conditions? If this is not acceptable, then I will limit myself to traditional fair use applications only. Thank you for your time and consideration. --Richard

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RE: [Wikipedia-l] Request for new Wikipedia: bokmål
by Lars Alvik 06 Nov '04

06 Nov '04

Ok, there are some basic facts, that the request didn't provide. 1. Most of the articles on no: is on either bokmål or riksmål. 2. The debate started on nn:, and is probably an attempt to claim (or deny the other part use of the no; domain) 3. A split (practicaly a move) would give bokmål (the dominant language) a unfamiliar name. mvh. Lars Alvik

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Logos switch (got scn zh)
by Ashar Voultoiz 06 Nov '04

06 Nov '04

Hello, Logos for got: scn: and zh: wikipedia have been switched to the image:wiki.png system :o) Post logos and switch request on: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_logos cheers, -- Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar

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Request for new Wikipedia: Friulian
by Mark Williamson 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

Hi I'd like to request a new Wikipedia for the Friulian language. It has an ISO 639-2 code, although I don't recall what it is (perhaps fur?) Friulian is spoken in Italy, and calls itself "Furlan". As to whether I have any actual support from speakers of this language: "Sorry for the delay in my answer. I would be very interested in Friulian language; can you help? So far I found just another user who wants to work on it. The main problem is that I don't have a pc currently so I'm seldom online --Klenje 19:18, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)" (from my talk page) This would be my third request for an Italian minority language Wikipedia... having requested only a few Wikis, I find it quite strange that three of them should be Italian minority languages (1. Sardinian sc:, 2. Sicilian scn:, 3. Friulian) --node

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multilingual wikipedia
by Mattis Manzel 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

I'd like to propose a new Wikipedia: "the multilingual wikipedia" Some ideas about how to do that are on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_communication I would be very interested in getting the multilingual features of oddmuse (the colored background, the language filters) ported to Mediawiki and then start working on two things: A) Elaborate the engine to make it work for multilingual pages: language filters also in the edit mode, inclusion of automatic pretranslation in a new translate-mode, etc. B) Start making the "multilingual wikipedia". Kinda getting people into the fun of translation. Hopefully this wouldn't require a fork of Mediawiki. Unfortunately I have a vage feeling that it does. In that case I propose as a name for the multilingual Mediawiki engine: MMediawiki ;) But who knows? Maybe things are easier than I think? thank you MattisManzel

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Request for new Wikipedia: bokmål
by Ulf Lunde 05 Nov '04

05 Nov '04

I'd like to request a new Wikipedia for the Norwegian language. I realize that there already exist two Norwegian Wikipedias, but I think we need a third, and possibly a fourth. No, I am not joking. Please read on to see why I propose this. Background ----------------- The Norwegian language has two official written forms: nynorsk and bokmål. (Note: The names of languages are never capitalized in Norwegian.) One should be aware that neither bokmål nor nynorsk is a *spoken* language in itself (except in official news broadcasts, poetry and theatre plays), as they are two separate *written* forms (Norwegian: "målform") of the same spoken language, *norsk*. Both nynorsk and bokmål have exactly the same status as official written languages of Norway. The grammars and vocabularies are distinct, but not completely different. They differ more than e.g. British English from American English, but are not more different from each other than e.g. Swedish and Danish, meaning that if you *master* one of them, you can also *understand* the other. (Furthermore, all Norwegians have studied both written forms in school.) There is also a third way to write norsk, called *riksmål*, which, although abandoned as an official form in 1929 because it was considered too conservative, still has quite a few users. The Current Wikipedia Situation ---------------------------------------------- There exists a Wikipedia in norsk: http://no.wikipedia.org/ but since Wikipedia is inherently written and not oral, that Wikipedia a mixture of all three written forms of Norwegian, which can sometimes be confusing. The front page there states: MÅLFORM – Bidragsytere kan skrive på alle norske målformer (bokmål, riksmål og nynorsk). In English: LANGUAGE FORM – Contributors may write in all Norwegian written language forms (bokmål, riksmål, and nynorsk). The articles (even the help and instruction pages) are randomly written in three different ways, sometimes even mixed, creating a somewhat chaotic impression. (What's more, this certainly makes that Wikipedia difficult to read for foreigners who have learned only one written form of the Norwegian language.) In July this year a separate Wikipedia in pure nynorsk was started: http://nn.wikipedia.org/ It has already received more than a thousand articles. But still there is no Wikipedia in bokmål, nor in riksmål, although both are used (together with nynorsk) in the norsk Wikipedia. This situation is not fair. My request ----------------- I request a new Wikipedia in only bokmål, at the address http://nb.wikipedia.org/ (The ISO code for bokmål is "nb" [or "nb_no"]. For nynorsk it is "nn" [or "nn_no"].) Today, http://nb.wikipedia.org/ just points to http://no.wikipedia.org/ (I do not know if riksmål has its own ISO language code, and since I am not a user of riksmål, I will leave it to others to request a Wikipedia exclusively for riksmål.) As I see it, it will not be necessary to translate all articles between nynorsk and bokmål; we can use #REDIRECT or similar means to bind them together, since all Norwegians are able to read both written language forms (as well as English, Swedish, and Danish). But at least the user interface will be pure bokmål in one Wikipedia, pure nynorsk in the other, giving users a real choice. I see the creation of a bokmål Wikipedia as the logical next step to take, especially now that a separate nynorsk Wikipedia has been established and is thriving. Why not just use the existing Wikipedia? ------------------------------------------------------------ One could propose to "clean up" the norsk Wikipedia by moving all nynorsk articles to the nynorsk Wikipedia, but I am sure that this would require a long and heated debate among the users. And what about the riksmål parts? I think it best to leave the norsk variant alone (allowing both nynorsk and riksmål there as well as bokmål), start separate bokmål and nynorsk Wikipedias, and use links and #REDIRECTs to make it navigation easier in the beginning. Another reason to break out of the old Wikipedia for Norwegian, is that there have been complaints about certain administrators there abusing their power to block other users from introducing changes that contradict the personal views of those administrators. (I have not experienced this, but some indignant users have turned to me for help.) Rather than quarreling about this or start accusing people, I thought I'd offer to start a new encyclopedia where there will be no censorship (as long as the texts are in bokmål and not downright offensive), and where democratic guidelines regarding content are adhered to, as well as the principle of neutrality. Who I am -------------- I am a Web programmer by profession, and I have created several wikis, both in my work and in my spare time, although never a Wikipedia before. I am also an active contributor to existing Wikipedias, especially the Esperanto variant: http://eo.wikipedia.org/ I am very familiar with CVS and other ways of collaboration on distributed software projects. I am prepared to do the translation of the interface (should be easy, since I can base it on two existing Norwegian Wikipedias). I am also prepared to be an administrator of a bokmål Wikipedia, write guidelines, participate in discussions, and offer my assistance to new users. I will gladly accept anybody's help with the administration, if some of the norsk (or nynorsk) Wikipedia administrators would like to become bokmål Wikipedia administrators, too. Sincerely, Ulf Lunde

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Putting wikipedia down in schools
by Andy Rabagliati 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Folks, http://www.wizzy.org.za/article/articlestatic/23/1/2/ Just a heads-up on my experience putting wikipedia down in schools. Recently, I have been working with the Shuttleworth Foundation, http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/ http://www.slug.org.za/ who put Linux Thin Client (K12LTSP) classrooms down in South African township schools. I augment their install by adding internet (email, offline web cache) and wikipedia. I have done 14 schools to date. I still install the Mar2004 version. It takes long enough, and it is (only) five CDs. To recap, wikipedia needs:- * The software (mediawiki - currently Andy's RPM, tiny, needs apache, php) * a mysql server with snapshot (the text, which I install as a binary file for speed, but is distributed as a mysql database dump - compressed) I also package this as an RPM. * the pictures (optional) - 256 RPMs, to be able to pack it on CDs. It (Mar2004) will fit on one DVD. It is all (to first order of magnitude) pictures. The mysql database dump is CD-sized, probably until January 2005. Wikipedia, in 6 months, has doubled in size - db/pics from 700M/2.5G to 1.2G/5G. Rapidly moving out of CD space, passing through DVD space, it is now a (mailed) hard drive. I am now putting the database on the main LTSP server (at a school), because I think it belongs there. However, I /really/ want the whole thing to be on one computer, so I am running tests - one school has the mysql server on the main (dual P4, 2Ggig), another has the DB on the (smaller, P3, 256M) wizzy server. At both schools, mediawiki and the pictures are on the wizzy server. The pictures (currently) must reside on the computer running the php software - mediawiki. Though they take a lot of space, it is not a difficult job - easily handled by a small computer with enough disk (Mar2004 needs about 4Gig). Mediawiki (as supplied) does a full text search on the database if there is not a hit on the encyclopedia article. This is (incredibly) expensive, and I turn it off now. I envisage a computer hard drive, mailed to people/schools, that you put into your (old) computer. It boots, discovers hardware, (like kudzu, open source from redhat) at boot, and delivers a wikipedia snapshot. An upgrade is:- * find another school/home/computer for an old one (hard disk) * get your new one I dual-boot to Ubuntu now - I am most impressed. The Shuttleworth Foundation will be moving over to Ubuntu in the future, so I need to learn how to make .debs. I am keen to grab the wikipedia front page, do a minor edit to add a BASE tag to <HEAD> to redirect links to the local wikipedia installation. Cheers, Andy! http://wizzy.org.za/

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Problems on the Kashmiri Wikipedia
by Angela 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

This is a call for help on the Kashmiri Wikipedia. There has been some conflict recently over which scripts ought to be used. If anyone has any experience with, or knowledge of, the Kashmiri language, I invite you to participate in the discussion at http://ks.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page Currently there seem to be only two users on this Wikipedia. One is Rk kaul, and the other is Node-ue. Rk kaul has accused Node-ue of vandalism since he is apparently replacing pages with some sort of unintelligible machine translation. An additional problem on this Wikipedia is that Node-ue has been editing under various sockpuppet accounts, and also anonymously. He managed to deceitfully gain adminship for two days after creating the account "User:Akka Akka" which was desysopped after complaints about his behaviour. He is also editing under the account "User:Bbbbbbbbb" and being generally abusive to the other user on the wiki. If anyone is able to help or offer suggestions, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Angela.

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Wikipedia-l November 2004