Hello Mark W., Stirling N., John Lee, Ingrid Mazeltov & whoever else is
I fail to see why all this inflammatory language is necessary -- or
Instead of commenting on each offensive remark, I would like to adress the
actual issue at hand -- the Yiddish Wikipedia.
I agree with Mark W. that one should be careful deleting stubs -- even when
these are really rudimentary. I agree with Stirling N. that the quoted
examples are very rudimentary indeed (but not in his language...) -- and I
prefer to refrain from commenting Ingrid M.'s rather loaded remark.
As for the problem with the Yiddish Wikipedia, my personal experience is
that it is hard to work with because of the problems with the user
interface. Maybe someone could take the job to translate a new version from
the Hebrew interface -- which has already dealt with most of the RTL issues
at hand here.
And then I suggest to be liberal along the way concerning how rudimentary
the stubs can be without being deleted.
Meanwhile, maybe we here on wikipedia-l can agree not to try to kill each
other verbally and/or otherwise....? :)
Friendly greetings from
At 21:17 28/11/2004 +0000, various people wrote:
>I am very sad that I have to report this, but Node is deleting stub
>articles in the Yiddish wikipedia.
>To Node, I am asking you to stop dealing with languages you do not know.
>Let the smaller language Wikipedias grow naturally, without interference
>I knew what the articles said just as much as you did.
>A page that says "_______ is a brother of [[________]]" and have the other
>article just link back, in addition to using incorrect orthography, is not
>even on the level of a stub, as is the case with an article simply saying
>I think it's very interesting that you are so upset about me interfering
>in Wikipedias in languages I do not know and asking me to let them grow
>naturally when you yourself support proposals to lock inactive Wikipedias,
>far from letting them grow naturally.
>Your accusations are out of line Mr. Williamson. You owe the list an apology.
>Agreed. Very out of line.
>What accusations are you talking about, exactly, anyways? If you tell me
>accusations are out of line, can you at least let me know which ones?
>If you aren't capable of understanding what you write, then you
>should think more before writing it.
>So you are accusing me of something, but then are not willing to back it
>up with evidence?
>Stop trying to waste my time.
>You criticised someone Jewish, Mark, and for that hubris you'll pay.
>If you're not willing to substantiate a claim with evidence, but rather
>prefer to make it and then try to get out of it later by telling me to
>stop wasting your time, it's probably better if you don't do it in the
Algerian language, badly named "Arabic", Algerian Spoken, is the language
of more than 20 millions persons. It's a mix of lot of languages like
arabic, turkish, french, spanish, berber etc.
It's not exactly arabic, because gramatically it's totaly different.
Speakers of Algerian who don't know what we call "classical" arabic, don't
Algerian language is the common language of every body in Algeria, but
since independance (1962), the Pan-arabism vision denied totaly the
existance of a specific algerian language, as it denied the existance
Algerian language was almost not written at all (no newspaper, no book)
but with the Internet we discovered that we coul wrote our own language
(using latin alphabet with some specific caracters for special sounds).
So we want to create an algerian Wikipedia to to persuade people that we
can use our language as a normal one.
N.B. : In Algeria before 1962, French was the only language used, since
indépendance, Arab was reintroduced with force to make forget french
colonisation. But the leaders forgot that what speak the natives it was
That's why today we say that the algerian school produce "trilingual
illiterates", because we learn evey thing in arabic, but it's not our
mother tongue. We learn French as first forein language, but not enought
to use it well. And finally we never learn our mother tongue Algerian.
I think you can install mediawiki to your machine, and that would be
exactly what you want.
I am currently using TikiWin. It is a wiki you can run on your desktop,
and its tags are quite close to MediaWiki's. The major difference I guess
is that It is small and easy to install.
If you can read Japanese (I know Mark can), and using a Windows
computer, you may want to try it.
You can get it here: http://todo.org/download/tikiwin/
And I am relatively sure that if you look for it there must be something
similar. I would like to know other desktop wikis.
From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud(a)ctelco.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 05:11:17 -0700
To: "Mark Williamson , wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org" <node.ue(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Collective POV ("systemic bias") rampant
On the English Wikipedia you can expect people of many nationalities to show
up and participate in debates about articles which concern people of other
than English cultural orientation. Chinese edit the People's Republic of
China article and the Tibet article; Ukrainians, Poles and Russians weigh in
on [[Collectivisation in the USSR]] as do advocates of Stalin. American and
English culture are international cultures and diverse viewpoints are
To a certain extent people are "spoken for", Tibetans, Ainus and victims of
the Great Famine don't show up themselves.
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>, wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org
> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:35:13 -0700
> To: wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Collective POV ("systemic bias") rampant
> And thus, the fact that as a general rule more pages at en.wikipedia
> are viewed and edited by Americans than anybody else, and by a much
> larger margin by more people from Anglophone countries than anywhere
> else, is systemic bias.
Maybe you know the Nauruan language or the Nauruan Wikipedia. There used
to be false interwiki link names for it. For example, "Nauruose" was a
false name for the word "Nauruan" in Nauruan language. Currently, there's
another false name for it, "Nauri". But since I've got a very rare grammar
about the Nauruan language, I know now the real and only correct name. It
is "Ekakair? Naoero". If it's possible, could you please change the false
name "Nauri" to the correct name "Ekakair? Naoero" ?? Thank you very much
for any help.
P.S.: It seems that English Wikipedia can't read the letter U with a tilde
(N with tilde = ñ) because it declares it as a "bad title". The German and
the Nauruan Wikipedia don't do so. Please check out the last letter in
this template: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorlage:Lateinisches_Alphabet.
Thank you and best wishes.
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Right now, if I have the same category link appear twice on one page,
there are two category links to the same page. Are there plans to make
it so that a category appears only once, and perhaps a robot powered by
an admin to eliminate duplicate categories?
I was thinking about how I could work on Wikipedia offline, and though it
would be great to have a stand-alone wikipedia client, which a wiki-user
could download that would allow him to download wikipedia content, edit it
while offline, then upload it when he gets to an internet connection. The
user would set it to download either new, edited, or any other type of pages
changed since his last upload.
What do you think?
In message <co46ov$h7j$1(a)sea.gmane.org>, Henry H. Tan-Tenn
>I recall the Welsh WP (which I rather like) has a large Welsh flag with
>its red dragon prominently and (I imagine) proudly displayed on the
>main page. This could be interpreted in NPOV and POV ways. I would not
>hazard a guess, but I personally am fine with it. This is related to
>my claim that we bring values and experiences to the table which
>influence our judgement.
Well we do rather like our flag, but it's not all _that_ prominent -- it
doesn't show up until you scroll down a page on my display, anyway! It
does highlight a section of the home page where we explain in English,
Spanish and French what Welsh is and where it's spoken, and links to
another page where people have been kind enough to translate the same
into Arabic, Breton, Catalan, Dutch, German, Irish, Icelandic, Italian,
Japanese, Latvian, Letzeburgish, Lithuanian, Min-nan, Norwegian,
Romanian, Swedish and Vietnamese, most of which were beyond our
linguistic skills :)