>> Daniel C Boyer... you know, this "*relatively* unknown"
>> US painter. There had been a lot of discussions on en: wiki to
>> admit "him" as an article.
>
> I really don't see what your problem is. It's not like we're about
> to run out of space. There's no need to harass Boyer.
>
> Finally, wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org is not the appropriate place to
> discuss trying to stalk other users.
I'm definitely with Cunc here on both counts. I don't have a
problem with anyone being both a contributer and a subject--we've
already had that case before, and it's no problem as long as the
subject understands that the article about him in the main wikipedia
space is not his personal page, and may be edited by others in ways
he doesn't like.
And yes, this is clearly not a "tech" issue, so I've moved it to
the main list.
--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee(a)piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lee/>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC
Toby wrote:
> The "international" (that is, non-English) Wikipedias
> are also subject only to US and (I think) California law.
> That's where they're located, after all.
> (Although suggestions have been made in the past
> to self-censor [[fr:]] and [[zh:]]
> in order to prevent the governments of France and the PRC
> from declaring it illegal to *view* them,
> which isn't exactly the same thing.)
IANAL
Ahem. If it is illegal for user x to do a and b in the country they are
contributing from, then that user should /not/ do that!
General comments to all:
If it is illegal in your nation to do something that would otherwise be legal
in California, then you are still taking a personal risk if you break your
own nation's laws. The simple fact that the server is in California does not
shield you from the laws of your own nation.
But what is legal for Wikipedia to have on its server in San Diego is really
only a matter of California/United States law (as Toby points out).
I don't think the first part of this point gets stressed often enough.
Of course, what is "appropriate" is a different matter and is largely dictated
by consensus and standing policy (both Wikipedia wide and language specific).
<devil's advocate>
It is here where an interesting question arises; should particular languages
have /added/ restrictions across their own language version of Wikipedia that
go beyond California/US law in order to make texts written in French, for
example, legal to have on a server in France?
Wouldn't that make the texts more useful to French-speaking peoples (well, at
least the French speakers in France)?
</devil's advocate>
I would argue that this is a dangerous idea because then the laws of
potentially every nation on earth could have veto power over what we have on
Wikipedia just to make it theoretically possible to have our text usable as
is and hosted on a server in each of those nations. The result of that would
be massive censorship in order to meet the lowest common denominator.
IMO, we should keep things simple and only concern ourselves with these two
things (as far as the legal issue goes):
1) What is legal for any one user to do in the nation they are submitting
from.
2) What is legal to have on our server in California (this applies to
everything we all submit; all text/media must be legal under California/US
law).
Both of the above factors limit what we each can individually submit. So for
example; a user writing from Germany has to respect restrictions set forth by
German law and US law in what they submit while a user writing from Australia
has to do the same in respect to Australian and US law.
Hm. This concept should be on a general disclaimer or something....
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
Hello,
Okay, this is scary. Looking at "Recent changes", I'm getting the
following:
"* (diff) (hist) . . Seven deadly sins; 05:28 . . David Stewart (Talk |
block) (adding paras on history and evolution of the seven deadly sins)"
David Stewart is a signed-in user. That "block" link shouldn't be there...
I don't know if it's actually a functional link, but I think I'd better
not try clicking on it, just in case it is... :)
Oliver
+-------------------------------------------+
| Oliver Pereira |
| Dept. of Electronics and Computer Science |
| University of Southampton |
| omp199(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk |
+-------------------------------------------+
Aoineko blew it definitly today. He is insulting people and refusing to talk to them, under the motive the user is using the same nickname than another person.
Since he was totally refusing dialogue, I created two pages to promote discussion on the french wiki
The first one was to ask other opinions about usage of the nicknames (such as should someone be allowed to use the same nickname than another, should the usage of nicknamed to allowed at all)
The second page was about the usage of swear words and insults on the french wikipedia. I ask other people opinions about that.
These pages were very proper and general in their intention
---------------
My proposition was followed by the following points
1. Aoineko moved the above stated articles to stupid names, soclearly showing he was totally refusing dialogue. He wrote on these articles signing with my name as a nickname. I restored some of them
2. Second, my account was stolen again (I say again since it already happened on the 1rst of january as Brion would remember I guess). So any edits made under my name after 14h00 french hour on any wikipedia are not by me, but a vandal.
Here http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikip%E9dia:Cas_de_l%27utilisati… you can see two edits were made by Anthere
None were me. This can be checked with the log I guess. I would like to know the ip under which these edits were made.
My edits were under the ip 81.49.198.47
I insist again that none of the others are by me.
I think this will clearly show the non reliability of the log in system.
I don't think it is necessary I change my password since it is obvious it does not prevent others to use my login name
3. For the above reason, I ask that please a study be made to see who is the author of the theft could be Aoineko.
4. For the above reasons also, (insults, abusive reversion, swear words, refuse to dialog), I hereby indicate I consider Aoineko should be given a break from sysophood to give him the time to recover. I think his behavior is right now being very detrimental of the project. Giving very poor view of the encyclopedia, driving editors away, and censuring those he does not agree with. On top of that, my own reputation will clearly suffer from that, as the one who stole my account is saying bad things.
I cannot even try to put that back, since others users will be confused between who is me and who is not me
Please
5. I also ask shelter from the english wikipedia.
At least , this is my email. Let's pray nobody steal it. Only words said here are mine
Anthere
---------------------------------
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
(Sorry for the ommission of the subject line. But it seems that subject line
has a limit in my mail service.)
One more issue. What is legal for an admin to do/not do.
In U.S. context, I guess admins may be held liable if they do not delete
obscene or defamatory content after a notice/objection from a user. (Or is
it the project as a whole rather than admins which would be held liable?)
Similar things, but with different conditions, would apply for admins of
other language-wikis. So, sometimes, even if the content is perfectly legal
to host in a U.S. server, it would have to be deleted by an admin in another
country.
Regarding copyrights, Japanese laws provide different protections for the
copyright holders and exemptions for users (like that of fair use in the
U.S.). So, again, what is legal in U.S. context may or may not be legal in
Japanese context.
regards,
Tomos
_________________________________________________________________
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A few of us have drafted a letter to Princeton's cognitive science
department, asking permission to use data from their WordNet project in
Wiktionary. We think it's ready to send:
http://wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary%3APrinceton_wordnet
My question is, who should send it? Jimbo, I guess, but it looks like
he's on vacation right now. Maybe whoever sends it should just put the
wikpedia-l address in the From: header, so everyone can read their
response and/or questions, etc. Comments?
Merphant
I added an article on Barth syndrome, which I read about in Reader's Digest,
and which affects about 10 babies per year in the USA. There's also Asperger
syndrome, which affects about 1 in 300. (Why the article calls it a
"disorder" I don't know. I'm an aspie and I don't feel it's a disorder.) Why
is Asperger listed in the list of rare diseases?
phma
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.
LDC wrote:
><http://www.piclab.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Wikipedia_Text_Syntax>
>
>So as I said, this is a vision. I invite comment
>and criticism. But I think it's important to
>Wikipedia's future that we do a good job of this.
I agree - but when you said "ALL HTML is forbidden" I went ahead and looked at
the table specification part of your document and saw some things that seem
rather Spartan to me. For example, the document doesn't indicate whether or
not nested tables would be allowed and it doesn't seem to say how one would
do bgcolor-type cell fills, or how to set border width.
If those things cannot be replicated in wikicode then all the
already-converted elements, country, ship, organism and battle tables would
be broken (not to mention the main pages of fr.wiki, ja.wiki, eo.wiki and
others - including a partially crippled en.wiki Main Page) . This would be a
very bad thing and I for one would be not be too happy if much of the work
I've done with the Elements project over the past year is destroyed (not to
mention the several other WikiProjects I helped nurture).
So if the table at http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium cannot be
replicated pretty much as-is in wikicode then I for will have a fit (I'm sure
many others will join me).
Also; if all HTML is going to be 'forbidden' then what do we do with all the
HTML we already have? Fire-up the Conversion Script again perhaps (just when
I was about to pass the damn thing on the Most Active Wikipedian's page! ;).
An alternative solution is to only allow HTML syntax to be rendered if it is
in a table:namespace page. So the HTML table code in [[Beryllium]] could be
placed at http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table:Beryllium and in the Beryllium
article that table can be displayed by typing [[table:Beryllium]] (much like
the image:namespace now works). Your more simple table wikicode could then be
used for less complex and shorter tables.
That way the dense table code now in [[Beryllium]] won't be in the way of
users who are only concerned about editing the prose of the article (even a
wikicode table would be dense and intimidating to many people).
A more long-term solution is to have a WYSIWYG GUI - then grandma can edit
even a very complex table by clicking inside the cell she wants to write in.
Please forgive me if these things are already explained somewhere in the
document - I only had time to glance at a few sections.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
The archive and sign-up pages for the Wikipedia mailing lists are now at
mail.wikipedia.org, so if someday we move the mailing lists to yet another
server we should never have to change the links again. :)
Any old links via www.wikipedia or pliny.wikipedia should forward there
automatically.
[ Aside to Jason: I still turn up links to wikipedia-l message archives on
www.nupedia.com via google searches sometimes, but these give 404 errors. Any
chance we could get /pipermail/(wikipedia|wikitech|intlwiki)-l/(.*) to
redirect to mail.wikipedia.org? "In theory" a 301 response will also tell
search engines to change their listings to the new location if they ever
re-index the page. ]
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I would suggest we leave this talk off until the W
foundation/non-profit is set up, funds are raised, and a property
right attorney paid for to give us legal advice.
I know it seems a silly thing to do, because we are all very
intelligent people.
Nevertheless the law in the US is hard to interpret even by lawyers,
so I would rather send the WFoundation $100 than *wonder* whether I'm
right or wrong on some point or other.
As far as Nicks, use the signature feature in your mail client.
=====
Christopher Mahan
chris_mahan(a)yahoo.com
818.943.1850 cell
http://www.christophermahan.com/
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