--- Lee Daniel Crocker <lee(a)piclab.com> wrote:
I don't speak much French, so I am unqualified to
judge the merits
of the argument going on at the French wiki now. But
let me offer an
opinion that may help guide those who do understand:
In the American legal system (and probably others),
you can win or
lose a case on its merits, but you can also lose by
not following
the rules of the system. This is called "procedural
default", and is
necessary to keep the system working: if a party
refuses to show up
for court, or complains to the wrong court, or
doesn't respond
properly to the court's questions, etc., then the
court will not
waste its time digging further into the issues of
the case--it will
simply declare that the uncooperative party loses.
If someone wants
a dispute resolved, it falls upon him to ensure that
he treats the
resolution system seriously and follows the process,
otherwise
there's no point in having a system at all. In
extreme cases, if a
litigant actively interferes with or subverts the
process itself,
casuing the court to waste its time and money, the
party can even
be sanctioned or charged with contempt of court.
When Wikipedia admins are called upon to resolve
disputes, they
should have the same powers. If it's something like
a dispute over
naming or content, a user who ignores legitimate
questions posed
to him, argues in the wrong place, and so on, should
not be
surprized when a sysop rules that his opponent's
argument wins
simply because his opponent behaved in a more
civilized,
productive manner. Likewise, there are some offenses
that are
so egregious as to merit sanctions: editing other
people's quotes
to misrepresent their opinions (but not just
spelling mistakes
and such), deliberate deception or dishonesty of
other kinds,
like lying about what one has said previously, or
about what
someone else has said.
I don't put mere hot-headedness into any of those
categories:
people get excited and say nasty things, and I don't
have a problem
with that as long as they keep the system working.
But when they
actively work to defeat the system, they need to
lose, or the
system stops working.
So, those admins who want to take some
responsibility for the
foreign wikis, do it. Don't be afraid to tell an
uncooperative
user that he is losing precisely because he refuses
to cooperate.
Block users, temporarily or permanently if
necessary, if they
actively work to subvert the system. If you need
more technical
assistance to exercise those powers, ask for it.
Take control.
Do what's necessary. We'll probably support you
unless a dozen
reasonable-sounding users give us good reasons not
to.
I thank you for these very wise comments Lee.
Since I was apparently not clear yesterday, I would
like to explain exactly the reason for my ire.
I have a problem with the very liberal use of swear
words and argotic insults toward other editors in case
of disagreement. Insults which are permanently
inscribed in the discussion pages, visible in history
and recent changes. I think that is very detrimental
with the image of a serious and reliable encyclopedia.
When I express my concern, Aoineko answers not using
swear words and insults would be hypocrisy, so better
speak plain. In spite of numerous comments I made
about this, he goes on using these words with no
consideration with my concern over these.
I believe similar concerns were adressed on the
english wiki with the change of TMC name. This is of
course an issue of the french. For this reason, I
started yesterday serious discussion meta page to try
to find a consensus. Which resulted in vandalism
toward me and my identity. Issue for which I asked
help from the developpers who have access to the
database.
I see none of my request have been answered, but that
you proposed some french take care of the matter
themselves. However, I know of no french I would trust
enough to have direct access to the database. However
I trust current developpers, in particular because
they are out of the process (do you see what I mean
?). So there is a problem here.
To go back to the vandalism issue, I think it is
likely to be a general concern, as it can occur on any
wikipedia (in particular since user tables are
separated). Which is also the reason why I raised to
the point on the main list.
Let me state first that in case anybody, under any
wikipedia, under any of the following user names
Anth�re
Anth�re
Anth�re
Anth�re
Antherement
doing any vandalism, porn image upload, use of swear
words, insults to contributors, copyright
infringment...
are not me Anthere
You may report any bad action to me, and consider by
default Aoineko is the author of it.
I would like also to add that in french Anthere is
written Anth�re. Which is why I often sign Anth�re.
However, my account is Anthere because my browser does
not handle unicode, and I wanted my user name to be
the same on any Wikipedia. For exemple, I can't have
an accentuated letter account on metapedia or in
wiktionary.
However, I often sign Anth�re since I consider this is
the proper spelling of my name.
Now, there are 4 names spelled very similarly to mine,
one of which I consider my real name, plus one clearly
inspired. All these user names are signing using the
same nickname than mine (Anthere without accent).
In short, the contributions made under these name are
quite likely to appear to be mine (because of the very
short similarity), and the comments made in talk page
will be confused with mine as well.
The name Anth�re (with nick Anthere) made up by
Aoineko wrote insults toward Aoineko himself
(something like "Aoineko is a fucking asshole").
While I can consider ok that others are using user
names very similar to mine, I think this was
deliberate attempt to make other believe I (Anthere)
said this about Aoineko. Hence, that is not simple
fun, that is direct attack and attempt to twist other
people perceptions.
I think that is wrong.
I wonder if Fred would appreciate if Tannin was
creating an account [[User:Fred Ba�der]], using the
nick Fred Bauder is using, and writing under this name
"Tannin is a fucking asshole".
<aside comment>This is just an example of current
events, I am totally sure Tannin would not do this, it
is just that Ba�der seems to me a plausible german
name</aside comment>
Deliberate deception could be the word I am looking
for. Perhaps.
But apparently, it does not deserve any sanction.
Not even an apology from the real author.
Not even check up that the different identities were
done by one or by several people (in case developpers
would not want to give ip, saying how many ips would
have been nice).
Consequently, I will consider Aoineko is the author of
the whole mess.
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