FYI, I asked WMF Communication Team about any plans of using Mastodon in future.
Here is their response [1] "The Digital Communications team has been researching Mastodon and considering our potential involvement with the platform in the future. At this time, we have no plans to create an account for the Foundation or Wikipedia. This is mainly because our observations show us that Mastodon is not yet reaching a large audience, which is one of the key objectives of our communications activity on social media. We will continue to monitor the situation and adjust our recommendations and practices to keep within our objectives."
[1]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/?diff=24262780
Regards,
SCP-2000 https://w.wiki/_zgcU
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 7:46 AM SCP 2000 scp-2000.wikimedia@outlook.com wrote:
FYI, I asked WMF Communication Team about any plans of using Mastodon in future.
Here is their response [1] "The Digital Communications team has been researching Mastodon and considering our potential involvement with the platform in the future. At this time, we have no plans to create an account for the Foundation or Wikipedia. This is mainly because our observations show us that Mastodon is not yet reaching a large audience, which is one of the key objectives of our communications activity on social media. We will continue to monitor the situation and adjust our recommendations and practices to keep within our objectives."
This is a disappointing response, especially after the events earlier this month: the mass suspension of journalist accounts [1], the continued (!) suspension of left-wing voices on behalf of right-wing agitators [2], and the bizarre "promotion of alternative social platforms policy" [3] (which led to many more account suspensions and has since been rescinded). For more on the goings-on at Twitter, see https://twitterisgoinggreat.com/ (incidentally, made using a template built by Wikipedian Molly White).
These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence elsewhere, and many have (primarily on Mastodon [4]). And Wikimedia Foundation is not any civil society organization; it is deeply grounded in the open source movement, same as Mastodon & friends.
It's true, Mastodon doesn't have the reach of Twitter and Facebook and maybe never will. But there are ~2.5M million active accounts now [5], and that includes many civil society organizations, journalists, news outlets, and of course Wikimedians.
While one purpose of social media engagement is "maximum reach", another one should be "be in touch with your own people". Additionally, organizations that _have_ invested in their presence on the fediverse have reported continually higher (both quantitative and qualitative) levels of interaction with their constituents, likely because promoted tweets and algorithms designed to highlight a few viral posts aren't getting in their way. Twitter metrics should be regarded with deep suspicion at this point, as many of your followers likely have already dramatically reduced their usage.
Here are some of the Wikimedia organizations with fediverse accounts Wikidata knows about:
https://w.wiki/6Aky (there are probably more - if so, please add them to Wikidata)
Here are some individual Wikimedians that Wikidata deems notable enough to have a record there:
https://w.wiki/6Am4 (there are many more, including quite a few current and former board and staff members of Wikimedia and its affiliates)
In addition to Wikimedia affiliates, like-minded organizations like the Internet Achive, Mozilla, EFF, the Tor Project, Fight for the Future (key allies from the SOPA battle), Global Voices, Open Knowledge Foundation, Open Rights Group, OpenStreetMap Foundation, and others have already set up shop there. These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
There is an ethical imperative to realize this rare opportunity for civil society to take back control of how it engages with its constituents. And there are very practical reasons to (also!) be where many of your friends already are. Please meet the moment.
Warmly, Erik
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_15,_2022_Twitter_suspensions [2] https://theintercept.com/2022/11/29/elon-musk-twitter-andy-ngo-antifascist/ [3] https://web.archive.org/web/20221218173806/https://help.twitter.com/en/rules... [4] https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-T... [5] https://absolutelymaybe.plos.org/2022/12/05/mastodon-growth-numbers-might-no...
I strongly support Erik’s and other people’s call for the Wikimedia Foundation to join Mastodon. Not only for the obvious ethical reasons, but also simply for the fact that platforms like Mastodon can only grow long-term when there’s enough activity and good content that makes engagement enjoyable and worthwhile.
We’re currently seeing a good level of engagement around Wikipedia, Wikidata, and other free knowledge-related topics on the platform. People on Mastodon are eager to hear more about our work and we shouldn’t miss the additional outreach opportunity that Mastodon offers. I surprised me to see how much engagement I got out of a recent post explaining that "Taking photos for Wikipedia" was a thing.
Now, with that being said, I think most people at the Foundation are on vacation right now. Let’s be patient and hear their response to this thread once they’re back.
All the best,
Frank
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that query: https://w.wiki/69V8
And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice start into the new year! :)
Warmly, Erik
I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!) Dip a toe in.
- d.
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that query: https://w.wiki/69V8
And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice start into the new year! :)
Warmly, Erik _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.
Regards,
Philippe Beaudette Tulsa, OK
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!) Dip a toe in.
- d.
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com
wrote:
These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that query: https://w.wiki/69V8
And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice start into the new year! :)
Warmly, Erik _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
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The wikipedia community doesn't need WMF permission to act on behalf of the community, imho. There are already a bunch of great wikipedians at the wikis.world instance - it would be a good place to set up some "official" accounts on behalf of the various wikipedia/wikimedia communities.
On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:09 AM Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.
Regards,
Philippe Beaudette Tulsa, OK
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!) Dip a toe in.
- d.
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com
wrote:
These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that query: https://w.wiki/69V8
And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice start into the new year! :)
Warmly, Erik _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/...
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Group accounts already there include: https://wikis.world/@WikiSignpost https://wikis.world/@wikisusdev https://wikis.world/@Wikimedia_Fr https://wikis.world/@WikiEducation https://wikis.world/@govdirectory https://wikis.world/@wikidata
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:34 AM The Cunctator cunctator@gmail.com wrote:
The wikipedia community doesn't need WMF permission to act on behalf of the community, imho. There are already a bunch of great wikipedians at the wikis.world instance - it would be a good place to set up some "official" accounts on behalf of the various wikipedia/wikimedia communities.
On Sat, Dec 31, 2022 at 4:09 AM Philippe Beaudette philippe@beaudette.me wrote:
Erik speaks wisely here, and I find myself in concurrence with the others who have spoken up: this is an unusual but important opportunity, and I am disappointed to see that WMF not even swing at the pitch.
Regards,
Philippe Beaudette Tulsa, OK
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 7:51 PM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I concur that the WMF should at the very least set up an account mirroring what's sent to the Twitter account. Or perhaps some well-known volunteer could set one up. (That's not me volunteering!) Dip a toe in.
- d.
On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 at 01:15, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 2:30 PM Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com
wrote:
These are just the nonprofits that Wikidata knows about:
Apologies, that was the wrong URL. Here is the correct one for that query: https://w.wiki/69V8
And yeah, completely agree re: patience - hope everyone has a nice start into the new year! :)
Warmly, Erik _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
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On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 at 22:31, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence elsewhere,
It has:
Mastodon is relivant for organisations that want or need to keep tweeting and its nor clear that either apply to the WMF.
Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni geniice@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2022 at 22:31, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
These events, and Musk's capricious leadership, should be sufficient to make _any_ civil society organization begin to establish a presence elsewhere,
It has:
Mastodon is relivant for organisations that want or need to keep tweeting and its nor clear that either apply to the WMF.
-- geni _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni <geniice@gmail.com mailto:geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
...
It has: https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>...
Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
Hello The Cunctator,
I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki. Proposing a content on Diff is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more informations at:
* https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/ * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)
The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.
cheers,
No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF edits Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the masthead to be public.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso hashar@free.fr wrote:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni <geniice@gmail.com mailto:geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
...
It has: https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>...
Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
Hello The Cunctator,
I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki. Proposing a content on Diff is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more informations at:
The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.
cheers,
-- Antoine "hashar" Musso Wikimedia Release Engineering
I agree that Wikipedia handles should join Mastodon. But, again, opening a social media channel needs a strategy. Currently, there's no strategy for the Twitter account, so opening an account in Mastodon without strategy would be a bad decision.
(Still waiting the social media team to define their monthly audience, really opaque statistics)
Best
Galder ________________________________ From: The Cunctator cunctator@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 1:33 AM To: Antoine Musso hashar@free.fr Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF edits Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the masthead to be public.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso <hashar@free.frmailto:hashar@free.fr> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni <geniice@gmail.commailto:geniice@gmail.com <mailto:geniice@gmail.commailto:geniice@gmail.com>> wrote:
...
It has: https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>...
Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
Hello The Cunctator,
I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki. Proposing a content on Diff is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more informations at:
* https://diff.wikimedia.org/about/ * https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Diff_(blog)
The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.
cheers,
-- Antoine "hashar" Musso Wikimedia Release Engineering
Hi all,
I'm Anusha, VP of Communications at the Foundation. We share everyone’s concerns on the direction of Twitter and very much agree that values are a big part of the way we communicate and show up in the world. Over the last several weeks, we’ve been watching this issue closely. There is a lot to look at—not just the communications outreach and technical bit of a presence on Mastodon, but also the legal, social, and safety factors like the data retention policy for an existing instance, the potential to access the private messages of accounts, or using Foundation resources for the tech and social media management of an account, and how this connects to our vision [1].
We want to be thoughtful and thorough in how we approach these questions and that takes time. We’re exploring with Foundation teams and we also have an upcoming meeting with the Communications Committee [2] - this is on the agenda. That meeting will help provide some valuable input and insights from community members in addition to what we’ve heard here.
I appreciate the concerns and perspectives shared on this thread and elsewhere. We’ll update folks on the social media talk page [3] and welcome more thoughts there. Thank you.
Anusha
[1] https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/vision/
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media
On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 12:27 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < galder158@hotmail.com> wrote:
I agree that Wikipedia handles should join Mastodon. But, again, opening a social media channel needs a strategy. Currently, there's no strategy for the Twitter account, so opening an account in Mastodon without strategy would be a bad decision.
(Still waiting the social media team to define their monthly audience, really opaque statistics)
Best
Galder
*From:* The Cunctator cunctator@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, January 4, 2023 1:33 AM *To:* Antoine Musso hashar@free.fr *Cc:* Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
No, I'm saying it is opaque who of the 41-member comms department at WMF edits Diff. Standard practice even for non-profit publications is for the masthead to be public.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 11:34 AM Antoine Musso hashar@free.fr wrote:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM geni <geniice@gmail.com mailto:geniice@gmail.com> wrote:
...
It has: https://diff.wikimedia.org/ <https://diff.wikimedia.org/>...
Le 03/01/2023 à 15:32, The Cunctator a écrit :
Pretty amusing that it's incredible opaque who edits it.
Hello The Cunctator,
I am assuming your reply was asking who can edit Diff. I don't think posts are editable in the sense of a Wiki. Proposing a content on Diff is open to anyone as long as it fit in its scope. There are more informations at:
The blog is managed by the WMF Movement Communications team: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications who will assist in polishing up your draft blog post before it is published.
cheers,
-- Antoine "hashar" Musso Wikimedia Release Engineering
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls, you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the company's current leadership.
While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K users), and the Flipboard one. https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-T...
Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much like many chapters/affiliates already have.
Warmly, Erik
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verifi...
Dear all, You may know the concern I have with this topic. Now, that we can see Twitter adding a Dogecoin icon in order to push a fraudulent pyramidal scheme and how the verified accounts won't be relevant anymore if they don't pay is a good moment to do two movements: joining Mastodon and bulding a new communications scheme where diversity, content and the community is in the center. We know that the word for crisis is not opportunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_%22crisis"), but, indeed, we are seing how the Titanic sinks and we have a good opportunity to move away and start to build good practices.
As always, some volunteers will be here to help in this travel.
Galder ________________________________ From: Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:23 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls, you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the company's current leadership.
While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K users), and the Flipboard one. https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-T...
Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much like many chapters/affiliates already have.
Warmly, Erik
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verifi... _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Mastodon is not really a centralized social network in any meaningful way, any more than "joining IRC" is. It's a bunch of individual servers, and participating in that kind of environment isn't just signing up for an account. It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to "join," whether WMF should start its own WMF-themed instance, and whether the reach from the instances are sufficient to be worth the trouble, or other things first. There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
Dan
On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 3:24 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga < galder158@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear all, You may know the concern I have with this topic. Now, that we can see Twitter adding a Dogecoin icon in order to push a fraudulent pyramidal scheme and how the verified accounts won't be relevant anymore if they don't pay is a good moment to do two movements: joining Mastodon and bulding a new communications scheme where diversity, content and the community is in the center. We know that the word for crisis is not opportunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_%22crisis"), but, indeed, we are seing how the Titanic sinks and we have a good opportunity to move away and start to build good practices.
As always, some volunteers will be here to help in this travel.
Galder
*From:* Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2023 7:23 AM *To:* Wikimedia Mailing List wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: Mozilla's social media pledge
The latest announcement from Twitter is that the site is going fully pay-to-play -- to be in recommendation feeds or even vote in polls, you will need to be a subscriber. [1] While it remains to be seen whether the site will follow through, these plans are consistent with the relentless promotion of a subscription-based model under the company's current leadership.
While new alternatives are launching every month, Mastodon remains the primary place folks are migrating to. This Dewey Square report is a good read on recent developments, including the Mozilla Mastodon instance, the Medium.com one (which is rapidly closing in on 10K users), and the Flipboard one.
https://www.deweysquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/DSG-Snapshot-of-the-T...
Being open source and community-based, Mastodon should be a perfect fit for Wikimedia, and I still very much hope that Wikimedia Foundation will set up an official presence in the fediverse, much like many chapters/affiliates already have.
Warmly, Erik
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/27/23659351/elon-musk-twitter-for-you-verifi... _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi,
On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to "join," <snip> There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured out which server to sign up on (and I don't think that was ever the issue anyways).
In any case, I'm primarily writing this email to let people know that we have started a community-run Wikipedia Mastodon account, which you all are invited to follow at https://wikis.world/@wikipedia, and more importantly contribute to, details of which are available at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/@Wikipedia. I hope that collectively we'll be able to address the issues that have been raised on this list in the past regarding community involvement and participation in social media.
We're also celebrating the six month anniversary of Wikis World ("a Mastodon server for wiki enthusiasts") today. If you haven't already, now is a great time to sign up - instructions at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikis_World.
-- Kunal / Legoktm
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to "join," <snip> There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured out which server to sign up on
With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who are also all struggling with this challenge.
[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]
I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest customers—like WMF.
There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast, maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having that discussion.
Hi All:
Following on from my last message in this thread, we are aiming to provide a more solid update on talks about Mastodon in the next few weeks. This has been an ongoing discussion among several Foundation teams and was also a topic of conversation in our meeting with ComCom [1] in February.
The Foundation Communications department sees social media platforms as places that should have many Wikimedia accounts with a view to goals and audiences. They are huge tools for outreach, organizing, and communicating values. There are currently many volunteer- and affiliate-led social media accounts working alongside Foundation-guided accounts, providing us all with a networked ability to share and localize content to advance specific goals with different audiences. We believe in this wide, collaborative model. Thank you.
Anusha
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 11:51 AM Luis Villa luis@lu.is wrote:
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to "join," <snip> There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured out which server to sign up on
With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who are also all struggling with this challenge.
[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]
I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest customers—like WMF.
There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast, maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having that discussion. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi All:
I wanted to update you that the Wikimedia Foundation has launched a Mastodon instance. You can follow us at: wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation.
At the moment, sign-up is open for Wikimedia Foundation staff as we examine moderation and other areas. Product and technology staff will use it primarily for developer engagement. The goal is to create a space for people to connect and talk tech. Several Foundation staff members, including Chief Product and Technology Officer Selena Deckelmann https://wikimedia.social/@selenadeckelmann, are setting up accounts on Mastodon to engage with people interested in our work. In addition, we’ll experiment with posting broader content about the Wikimedia movement and projects that might be appealing to tech enthusiasts and fans of open-source platforms. We’ll use these experiments to better understand Mastodon’s use as an outreach platform. We also know there are other social media options launching or that have launched (e.g. Threads, Bluesky). We are also looking into experimenting with these and will be updating ComCom https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee on our progress. Please feel free to reach out to us on our talkpage https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media with any questions.
Thanks,
Anusha
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 2:56 PM Anusha A aalikhan@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi All:
Following on from my last message in this thread, we are aiming to provide a more solid update on talks about Mastodon in the next few weeks. This has been an ongoing discussion among several Foundation teams and was also a topic of conversation in our meeting with ComCom [1] in February.
The Foundation Communications department sees social media platforms as places that should have many Wikimedia accounts with a view to goals and audiences. They are huge tools for outreach, organizing, and communicating values. There are currently many volunteer- and affiliate-led social media accounts working alongside Foundation-guided accounts, providing us all with a networked ability to share and localize content to advance specific goals with different audiences. We believe in this wide, collaborative model. Thank you.
Anusha
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications_committee
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 11:51 AM Luis Villa luis@lu.is wrote:
On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:29 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@debian.org wrote:
Hi,
On 4/7/23 18:17, Dan Szymborski wrote:
It doesn't make sense to even talk about actually getting involved without discussing *which* of the multitude of Mastodon instances to "join," <snip> There's a lot of legwork to be done first, as opposed to the simpler task of signing up for, say, an alternative of similar construction, like Spoutible.
To be clear, this discussion started in December, which has been more than enough time for our friends and allies at Mozilla, Creative Commons, Internet Archive, OpenStreetMap and plenty more to set up their Mastodon presences. There's no excuse for the WMF to not have figured out which server to sign up on
With no offense to any of those groups (almost all of whom I have some past or present affiliation with), WMF has a professional Twitter presence with more followers than all of those organizations combined, and with substantial donor mindshare and revenue attached to that presence (almost certainly more than all of those orgs combined, though harder to know for certain). The much better comparison is the large media organizations — who are also all struggling with this challenge.
[As just one example of the challenge, NPR was (incorrectly) rumored to have showed up on press.coop last night and... the server has been down or inaccessibly slow pretty much since then. And it wasn't even true!]
I do think that WMF should have a presence on federated media, and I hope they're working with Wordpress (who power diff) to implement it. But Wordpress is still labeling their ActivityPub plugin as beta, so no surprise that they aren't rolling it out yet to their biggest customers—like WMF.
There's a case to be made that WMF should not act like a guardian of a global brand—as Depths of Wikipedia has been reminding us all of late, many people love Wikipedia's weird, rough edges, so the standard global brand toolkit may not be a good fit for us. But any discussion of "move fast, maybe break the brand" has to start from that — what is the brand? what is the risk of playing fast and loose with it? what are the "right" kids of risk to take with it? It'd be irresponsible to plunge ahead before having that discussion. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 8:54 AM Anusha A aalikhan@wikimedia.org wrote:
I wanted to update you that the Wikimedia Foundation has launched a Mastodon instance. You can follow us at: wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation.
This is wonderful news. I imagine it took quite a bit of behind the scenes work to get to this point, under a dedicated wikimedia.social domain name no less. Thanks to all who helped make it happen. Congratulations and welcome to the fediverse!
In addition, we’ll experiment with posting broader content about the Wikimedia movement and projects that might be appealing to tech enthusiasts and fans of open-source platforms.
There are definitely a lot of tech enthusiasts on the fediverse who will appreciate such content. But I would generally encourage a broad view of the network. I know you're saying it'll be a bit of both -- this is also in response to the Wikimedia account cover image being a bunch of servers ;-) (I don't know if that's just a temporary placeholder, or if it was an intentional "know your audience" kind of choice). [1]
Much like Wikipedia, the fediverse has barriers to entry, and those certainly skew the community more technical. Folks who are very comfortable with technology will not be _as_ frustrated or confused by stuff like "how do I choose a server" or "how do I follow someone on another server". Similarly, more technical folks contributing to Wikipedia may be less likely to be turned away by wiki syntax or the, er, magic of talk pages.
But in both cases, people join not necessarily because of some technical appeal, but because of other goals (improving an encyclopedia, joining a community). The technology is often a means to an end, not an end in itself. And many less technical users _do_ overcome friction and frustration, in both cases (I'd wager many fediverse users are Wikimedians in waiting).
There are many, many communities in the fediverse that are not "techie" in nature. For example:
https://mastodon.art/ - thousands of artists in many different media https://union.place/ - labor organizing, with official accounts for many unions https://newsie.social/ - news and journalism, with many official media organization accounts https://fediscience.org/ - science and scholarship across many disciplines https://lgbtqia.space/ - one of several servers building safe spaces for the LGBTQIA community https://polyglot.city/ - a community of language learners https://veganism.social - a space for the vegan community
(It's fun to visit the "local timelines" on these servers to see what the people who just signed up there are talking about.)
With thousands of interconnected servers, even that's just a tiny slice of the diversity of topics represented today. And of course the big general purpose servers are home to users with a large variety of interests.
Much like Wikimedia, the fediverse is a fundamentally mission-oriented endeavor. I personally would describe that mission like so: to create connected, self-governing social spaces for all of humanity.
Wikimedia is not in the business of hosting general purpose social networks, and you're rightfully wary of going too far in that direction -- but the Wikimedia movement _will_ be better off if online social spaces become more open, inclusive, decentralized and self-governing.
My concrete suggestion to any movement org would be to dedicate at least 50% of all effort that goes towards social media towards the fediverse. That would be placing a bet on the future, not just the present. Some of that effort could be in the form of lending expertise to making the fediverse more open, inclusive, and welcoming.
A thriving fediverse will help Wikimedia in its policy struggles (because it will create new opportunities for alliances with nonprofit communities impacted by bad policies). It will help it in its outreach (because it will make Wikimedia less subject to algorithms skewed towards anything that makes Musk or Zuck money). It will help it to build community (because all participants will be able to more actively shape the many ways in which we construct community).
In short, I would suggest not thinking of the fediverse as the place where the techies are, but as a space to expand our collective future possibilities.
Warmly, Erik
[1] As of this writing, https://cdn.masto.host/wikimediasocial/accounts/headers/110/708/857/481/231/... (granted, it's a cool image, though images of servers always make me feel a bit claustrophobic :)
yes, though the alternative image is probably a room full of us at laptops ;-)
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 07:15, Erik Moeller eloquence@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jul 17, 2023 at 8:54 AM Anusha A aalikhan@wikimedia.org wrote:
I wanted to update you that the Wikimedia Foundation has launched a Mastodon instance. You can follow us at: wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation.
This is wonderful news. I imagine it took quite a bit of behind the scenes work to get to this point, under a dedicated wikimedia.social domain name no less. Thanks to all who helped make it happen. Congratulations and welcome to the fediverse!
In addition, we’ll experiment with posting broader content about the Wikimedia movement and projects that might be appealing to tech enthusiasts and fans of open-source platforms.
There are definitely a lot of tech enthusiasts on the fediverse who will appreciate such content. But I would generally encourage a broad view of the network. I know you're saying it'll be a bit of both -- this is also in response to the Wikimedia account cover image being a bunch of servers ;-) (I don't know if that's just a temporary placeholder, or if it was an intentional "know your audience" kind of choice). [1]
Much like Wikipedia, the fediverse has barriers to entry, and those certainly skew the community more technical. Folks who are very comfortable with technology will not be _as_ frustrated or confused by stuff like "how do I choose a server" or "how do I follow someone on another server". Similarly, more technical folks contributing to Wikipedia may be less likely to be turned away by wiki syntax or the, er, magic of talk pages.
But in both cases, people join not necessarily because of some technical appeal, but because of other goals (improving an encyclopedia, joining a community). The technology is often a means to an end, not an end in itself. And many less technical users _do_ overcome friction and frustration, in both cases (I'd wager many fediverse users are Wikimedians in waiting).
There are many, many communities in the fediverse that are not "techie" in nature. For example:
https://mastodon.art/ - thousands of artists in many different media https://union.place/ - labor organizing, with official accounts for many unions https://newsie.social/ - news and journalism, with many official media organization accounts https://fediscience.org/ - science and scholarship across many disciplines https://lgbtqia.space/ - one of several servers building safe spaces for the LGBTQIA community https://polyglot.city/ - a community of language learners https://veganism.social - a space for the vegan community
(It's fun to visit the "local timelines" on these servers to see what the people who just signed up there are talking about.)
With thousands of interconnected servers, even that's just a tiny slice of the diversity of topics represented today. And of course the big general purpose servers are home to users with a large variety of interests.
Much like Wikimedia, the fediverse is a fundamentally mission-oriented endeavor. I personally would describe that mission like so: to create connected, self-governing social spaces for all of humanity.
Wikimedia is not in the business of hosting general purpose social networks, and you're rightfully wary of going too far in that direction -- but the Wikimedia movement _will_ be better off if online social spaces become more open, inclusive, decentralized and self-governing.
My concrete suggestion to any movement org would be to dedicate at least 50% of all effort that goes towards social media towards the fediverse. That would be placing a bet on the future, not just the present. Some of that effort could be in the form of lending expertise to making the fediverse more open, inclusive, and welcoming.
A thriving fediverse will help Wikimedia in its policy struggles (because it will create new opportunities for alliances with nonprofit communities impacted by bad policies). It will help it in its outreach (because it will make Wikimedia less subject to algorithms skewed towards anything that makes Musk or Zuck money). It will help it to build community (because all participants will be able to more actively shape the many ways in which we construct community).
In short, I would suggest not thinking of the fediverse as the place where the techies are, but as a space to expand our collective future possibilities.
Warmly, Erik
[1] As of this writing, https://cdn.masto.host/wikimediasocial/accounts/headers/110/708/857/481/231/... (granted, it's a cool image, though images of servers always make me feel a bit claustrophobic :) _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
+1 Erik (all true and well said) -1 David (probably before pandemic)
I do not see a reason why at least existing corporate social media posts would not be mirrored?
Also (from the less positive glass is half empty perspective)... as it took a year of 'evaluation' for WMF to do this, it is strange these pages on instance are empty:
About:This information has not been made available on this server. Server rules:This information has not been made available on this server. Moderated servers:This information has not been made available on this server.
Warm regards!
Hello all,
an informational addition: Wikimedia Deutschland also has a Mastodon instance since December 2022, you can follow us here: https://social.wikimedia.de/@wikimediaDE
We believe that organizations like Wikimedia can play an important role here and create a social space for people online. People with a wikimedia.de email address can sign up there and explore the Mastodon universe, so it is limited to all WMDE employees and the board and is our first experiment to gain more experience with this online space. It should help us to decide if we can and want to extend it to our communities and members.
So far, we have seen that there is quite a bit of interaction, especially substantive points such as our political demand "Public money? Public good!" are often shared and commented on and foster some interaction. We will continue to maintain this and are also interested in your experiences!
Greetings from Berlin! Lilli
Am Mi., 19. Juli 2023 um 09:27 Uhr schrieb Željko Blaće zblace@mi2.hr:
+1 Erik (all true and well said) -1 David (probably before pandemic)
I do not see a reason why at least existing corporate social media posts would not be mirrored?
Also (from the less positive glass is half empty perspective)... as it took a year of 'evaluation' for WMF to do this, it is strange these pages on instance are empty:
About:This information has not been made available on this server. Server rules:This information has not been made available on this server. Moderated servers:This information has not been made available on this server.
Warm regards! _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
On 7/17/23 11:53, Anusha A wrote:
I wanted to update you that the Wikimedia Foundation has launched a Mastodon instance. You can follow us at: wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation https://wikimedia.social/@wikimediafoundation.
Awesome, this is really great to see happen! As far as I can tell, the reaction on the Fediverse has been pretty positive as well.
At the moment, sign-up is open for Wikimedia Foundation staff as we examine moderation and other areas. Product and technology staff will use it primarily for developer engagement. The goal is to create a space for people to connect and talk tech.
I'll just +1 everything Erik said regarding this topic. Despite being a developer, most of my feed is actually trains, bikes and foxes.
Please feel free to reach out to us on our talkpage https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_mediawith any questions.
Cool, I've left some notes at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#wikimedia.social_comments.
-- Kunal / Legoktm
(changing the subject seems long overdue)
Hi all,
I wanted to share two cool things related to Mastodon and Wikimedia.
First, it's now possible to verify your Wikimedia account on Mastodon[1]. The documentation for this is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:RealMe. Thanks to Taavi who led the technical development and all the other people who provided input during the process[2].
On 4/13/23 03:11, Kunal Mehta wrote:
In any case, I'm primarily writing this email to let people know that we have started a community-run Wikipedia Mastodon account, which you all are invited to follow at https://wikis.world/@wikipedia, and more importantly contribute to, details of which are available at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/@Wikipedia.
The @Wikipedia account has been posting about a month and a half now, so I've written up a report of the experience and reception so far and provided metrics[3] on individual posts: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/@Wikipedia/May_2023. (We'll aim to do similar metrics reports in the future, but likely won't advertise it as widely as this list unless there's a desire for it.)
[1] For free, no need to pay $8 for the checkmark. [2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T322717 [3] All of these metrics are public, but require a bit of scripting to aggregate.
Thanks, -- Kunal / Legoktm
Very cool ! Nice work, would love to see more of these reports on the posting experience, thanks for sharing this.
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 4:22 AM Kunal Mehta legoktm@debian.org wrote:
(changing the subject seems long overdue)
Hi all,
I wanted to share two cool things related to Mastodon and Wikimedia.
First, it's now possible to verify your Wikimedia account on Mastodon[1]. The documentation for this is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:RealMe. Thanks to Taavi who led the technical development and all the other people who provided input during the process[2].
On 4/13/23 03:11, Kunal Mehta wrote:
In any case, I'm primarily writing this email to let people know that we have started a community-run Wikipedia Mastodon account, which you all are invited to follow at https://wikis.world/@wikipedia, and more importantly contribute to, details of which are available at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/@Wikipedia.
The @Wikipedia account has been posting about a month and a half now, so I've written up a report of the experience and reception so far and provided metrics[3] on individual posts: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/@Wikipedia/May_2023. (We'll aim to do similar metrics reports in the future, but likely won't advertise it as widely as this list unless there's a desire for it.)
[1] For free, no need to pay $8 for the checkmark. [2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T322717 [3] All of these metrics are public, but require a bit of scripting to aggregate.
Thanks, -- Kunal / Legoktm _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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