Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
+1, I'm as well shocked to hear of so many unsuccessful visa applications this year.
Regards, Leon
Am 2017-06-22 um 11:23 schrieb Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
Cheers,
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year, so that we know in comparison?
There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
Lodewijk
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey flixtey@gmail.com wrote:
This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
Cheers,
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
- apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost,
while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- *Felix Nartey* *Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin* *Open Foundation West Africa https://openfoundationwestafrica.org/* *+233242844987 <+233%2024%20284%204987> | +447440959477 <+44%207440%20959477>* *Skype:Flixtey*
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing this.
Jean-Philippe Béland Vice President, Wikimedia Canada User:Amqui
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year, so that we know in comparison?
There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
Lodewijk
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey flixtey@gmail.com wrote:
This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
Cheers,
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
- apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost,
while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- *Felix Nartey* *Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin* *Open Foundation West Africa https://openfoundationwestafrica.org/* *+233242844987 <+233%2024%20284%204987> | +447440959477 <+44%207440%20959477>* *Skype:Flixtey*
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Hi Jean-Philippe,
just to be clear: I'm not trying to blame WMCA for anything. 'being able to accomplish that' includes having the expertise and manpower. It would be great if you could help with visa issues, but given the situation, that is just not always possible.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
wrote:
Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing this.
Jean-Philippe Béland Vice President, Wikimedia Canada User:Amqui
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year, so that we know in comparison?
There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
Lodewijk
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey flixtey@gmail.com wrote:
This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences.
Cheers,
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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-- *Felix Nartey* *Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin* *Open Foundation West Africa https://openfoundationwestafrica.org/* *+233242844987 <+233%2024%20284%204987> | +447440959477 <+44%207440%20959477>* *Skype:Flixtey*
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--
Jean-Philippe Béland
[image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia Vice president — Wikimedia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en, national chapter supporting Wikipedia 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
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Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta
Hi Jayanta,
please be careful to make judgement calls without knowing all the facts.
Lodewijk
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hai,
My thought is - at first Canada is a tough country to get VISA for people from Asia, Africa and other 3rd world countries. They like only people with USA,UK Visa. Then the invitation problem it was from USA. No mention about an organisation in Canada. Third the Canadian embassy is reject more visas than accepting them from all the third world countries. So Canada is a very bad choice for an international conference like Wikimania. Also Other strict VISA Rule countries like USA, UK, China, Australia etc. Seeking some friendly countries are good for better participation. My rejection reason was current economic conditions and family ties. (I submitted my marriage certificate and bank statement for that). After all we are staying in Canada for a week and WMF is sponsoring us. But they still saying the economic condition is no right.
Regards,
*Ranjith Siji* Smashing Web www.smashingweb.info http://smashingweb.info
Chat Google Talk: ranjith.sajeev Skype: ranjith.sajeev
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on this mailing list I think.
JP
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico.
What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy. Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents may help to get visa easily.
Hasive
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland < jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on this mailing list I think.
JP
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
I have a few comments: 1) We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event. 2) Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them a few times and they are really very helpful. 3) The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail, pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
Gabriel
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive nch@nhasive.com wrote:
Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico.
What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy. Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents may help to get visa easily.
Hasive
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland < jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on this mailing list I think.
JP
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
2)
Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them a few times and they are really very helpful.
The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for trouble-shooting to no avail. I spent many hours and it wasn't possible. A service agency was not a possibility. They have a new system and I have to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people. They follow very much the model of the United States. It is the major reason why we don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries. ( The last one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. ) For the scholarship program: we had relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance... the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told it was high); the next was London (9); Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong Kong - 1.
As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot of people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a timely manner.
And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.
3)
The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail, pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is usually sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that time). Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in getting all the paperwork and information in process shortly after that. We set up a system this year that required people to send us proof that they had filed by May 15. If they need paper, we send paper. We even support people having to travel to other countries to apply. Even so, it is often the individual embassies that are big part of the problem in securing approval.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive nch@nhasive.com wrote:
Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico.
What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy. Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents may help to get visa easily.
Hasive
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland < jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on this mailing list I think.
JP
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)* User: Hasive http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive | GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752 Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/ fb.com/Hasive http://fb.com/NCHasive | @nhasive http://www.twitter.com/nhasive | www.nhasive.com
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A lot of great suggestions and comments have been shared on here, but just to add unto that.
One thing I know for sure that works is having an invitation letter from say the WMF and the Local Organising Organisation. It is also very useful to often include mayors of towns, states and cities where the conferences will happen.
This is one the very reasons why ICANN conferences are usually successful in terms of attendance, you get these two letters and an endorsement from say a mayor and that carries a lot of weight. I know this was also done for Wikimania Esino Lario and this could have accounted for its, low rejection rates.
Cheers,
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them a few times and they are really very helpful.
The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for trouble-shooting to no avail. I spent many hours and it wasn't possible. A service agency was not a possibility. They have a new system and I have to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people. They follow very much the model of the United States. It is the major reason why we don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries. ( The last one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. ) For the scholarship program: we had relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance... the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told it was high); the next was London (9); Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong Kong - 1.
As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot of people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a timely manner.
And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.
The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail, pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is usually sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that time). Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in getting all the paperwork and information in process shortly after that. We set up a system this year that required people to send us proof that they had filed by May 15. If they need paper, we send paper. We even support people having to travel to other countries to apply. Even so, it is often the individual embassies that are big part of the problem in securing approval.
Gabriel
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive nch@nhasive.com wrote:
Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa and attend Wikimania Mexico.
What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy. Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents may help to get visa easily.
Hasive
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland < jpbeland@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
I suggest you direct your questions to visas@wikimedia.org. Those requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on this mailing list I think.
JP
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath jayantanth@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF. As per my knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting countries.
Regards, Jayanta _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)* User: Hasive http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Hasive | GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752 Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia http://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/user:Hasive Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh http://www.wikimedia.org.bd/ fb.com/Hasive http://fb.com/NCHasive | @nhasive http://www.twitter.com/nhasive | www.nhasive.com
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-- Ellie Young Events Manager Wikimedia Foundation eyoung@wikimedia.org c. 510 701 8649
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On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen <gabriel@thullen.com mailto:gabriel@thullen.com> wrote:
I have a few comments: 1) We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants: -- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
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Hi Amir,
I found your experience with visa issue very edifying. You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa.
Regards, Zana
2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
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Hi Amir,
If you do write something up, please let me know so I can link from Wikimania 2018 site.
Cheers,
Peter
From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Zana Strkovska Sent: Sunday, 25 June 2017 1:49 AM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
Hi Amir,
I found your experience with visa issue very edifying.
You can write a study case for this matter. Do not wait for opening centralized place on meta to share what you know about how to get a visa.
Regards,
Zana
2017-06-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it.
-- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal)
-- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings.
-- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF:
-- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others.
-- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters:
-- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments: 1) We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this."
The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
Ellie
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <#m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
Pine
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
Ellie
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <#m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Ellie Young Events Manager Wikimedia Foundation eyoung@wikimedia.org c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Hello all,
While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we will publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has written a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in getting a (German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is certainly focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable by any organizer in any country.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing,_Communication,_Pre...
Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material around this topic for future events.
Happy reading & sharing, Cornelius
On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
Pine
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
Ellie
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <#m_1267552695921599484_m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Ellie Young Events Manager Wikimedia Foundation eyoung@wikimedia.org c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
today I found out another wikimedian from Iraq was also rejected because of "purpose of trip", I highly believe this stem from our invitation letter which is from WFM not a local entity. why should an American foundation invite someone to Canada ? it would be great if others could update us about their visa situation
Mardetanha
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Cornelius Kibelka < cornelius.kibelka@wikimedia.de> wrote:
Hello all,
While preparing the report for the last Wikimedia Conference (which we will publish on Friday), Daniela Gentner, our logistics coordinator, has written a detailed learning pattern about how to support participants in getting a (German) Schengen visa for the Wikimedia Conference. While it is certainly focused on German processes, many steps and tips are applicable by any organizer in any country.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns/Timing, _Communication,_Preparation:_How_to_support_your_event_ participants_in_the_best_way_to_get_a_Schengen_Visa
Maybe this is could be a good start to collect resources and material around this topic for future events.
Happy reading & sharing, Cornelius
On 27 June 2017 at 02:49, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
The creation of one or more learning patterns could be good here. Please see https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_patterns.
Pine
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Ellie Young eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
I think the centralized place on meta is a great idea so we could put tips, samples, and maybe even an 'advice line' for people who might be able to help someone in a particular region. If someone wants to start this I'd be happy to add, edit, etc.
Ellie
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
As a person who missed three events because of rejection of visa (one Wikimania, one Wikimedia Hackathon, one WikiArabia) and missed two other because couldn't event get an appointment with the embassy (DevSummits) I want to share my experience here. There is three parties involved in this case:
- Participants:
-- If you are going to another country that has strict visa rules, you should be prepared and know what can go wrong. Usually make a group of people who are more experienced in Wikimedia events and ask them for help. This helped me in some events to get visa without trouble. One case I remember was when the invitation letter was from WMF and not the local chapter. It caused rejection of visa before me and once I knew it, I fixed it. -- Be prepared for other options. For example, for Esino Lario one of my friends missed the event because he couldn't get appointment with the embassy, when I knew this is a problem, I tried the German embassy and got the visa ready in time. (Per Schengen laws, you need to make requests to the country you will stay the most, so I stayed in Germany for 11 days and Italy for 8 days to make things legal) -- If you have an interview to justify your visa, definitely mention Wikipedia. People don't know what WMF is but all know Wikipedia and have positive feelings. -- I know it's hard but let go sometimes: I decided not to go at this year's Wikimania just because the visa process is horrible and I need to travel to Turkey at least twice. Even though I know I miss a great event but let's hope to meet them soon.
-WMF: -- I know WMF is busy but I mentioned this several times to legal, support and safety and some other teams. People like me have problem going to events and there should be support for them. Two things were always said and I don't know why it's not being done, 1- Prepare a centralized place (probably in meta) so people share experience to help newbies to get visa documents right. I have seen lots of problems in the documents my friends need to prepare for the visa and helped them to get it right before it gets rejected but I had to meet them in person and it's an exclusive club of people I know. I want to open this knowledge to others. -- The other option I always mentioning is support for getting one multiple entries visa instead of getting one visa for each event, This is very true for European events. This would make life of lots of people way easier.
Local chapters: -- When there is a Wikimania, a local chapter will be handling process of visa for lots of countries with different issues. Sometimes they handle it perfectly and other problems might be the reason for rejection but sometimes I need to come back to them and ask for more documents which increases the chance of rejection or visa not being issued in time. They usually consult with an immigration lawyer before the process, this needs to be increased and WMF needs to make sure these consults happen.
Sorry for the long email. I hope this would be helpful for you.
Best
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 1:51 PM Ilario valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
On 24/06/2017 02:00, Ellie Young wrote:
On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen gabriel@thullen.com wrote:
I have a few comments:
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania. Jean-Philippe said: "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this." The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable. Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with the original proposers to host. The Steering Committee (including yours truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was involved. I think everyone can agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course South Africa coming up.
Hi Ellie, This is an interesting point. I know that recently there has been a decision to have Wikimania's organization notified two years in advance, but this model can only work if there is a "local group" with a mature organization. Two years are too many for a local "extemporary" committee.
A chapter (with at least a small staff) is something that can assure a commitment for two years and can support efficiently a local group (and perhaps to save the organization in case of withdrawal).
Basically the two year model cannot be disconnected from a *mature* local organization as a chapter, otherwise the model will not work.
But at this point is also interesting to know how big may be the impact on a chapter. The organization of an event like Wikimania is something fascinating, but at the same time it's more than a "stress test" for a chapter.
Kind regards
-- Ilario Valdelli Wikimedia CH Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera Switzerland - 8008 Zürich Tel: +41764821371 <+41%2076%20482%2013%2071>http://www.wikimedia.ch
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient <#m_185410550034025492_m_1267552695921599484_m_6880580939877686418_m_-1851108117246999399_m_3850020966839007458_m_-2762511510589227394_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Ellie Young Events Manager Wikimedia Foundation eyoung@wikimedia.org c. 510 701 8649 <(510)%20701-8649>
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- Cornelius Kibelka Program and Engagement Coordinator (PEC) for the Wikimedia Conference
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de
Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei! http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Interesting.
You are right and you don't have to blame and there is no sense to excuse the current rejection of visas.
Instead of speaking always of a division Global North and Global South there should be a support for your action to save an important event like Wikimania.
Kind regards
On 23/06/2017 16:24, Jean-Philippe Béland wrote:
Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing this.
Jean-Philippe Béland Vice President, Wikimedia Canada User:Amqui
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org mailto:lodewijk@effeietsanders.org> wrote:
I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over year, so that we know in comparison? There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example) Lodewijk On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey <flixtey@gmail.com <mailto:flixtey@gmail.com>> wrote: This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year. This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at international conferences. Cheers, On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com <mailto:gnangarra@gmail.com>> wrote: These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made. That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue. On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs <cs@edubkk.org <mailto:cs@edubkk.org>> wrote: That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists. It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications. Kudpung.On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com <mailto:bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi, The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries. This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon. Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented. Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> -- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra <http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> -- *Felix Nartey* *Cofounder/Director Finance & Admin* *Open Foundation West Africa <https://openfoundationwestafrica.org/>* *+233242844987 <tel:+233%2024%20284%204987> | +447440959477 <tel:+44%207440%20959477>* *Skype:Flixtey* _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l> _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l>--
Jean-Philippe Béland
Wikimedia Canada Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fr, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia Vice president — Wikimedia Canada https://ca.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=en, national chapter supporting Wikipedia 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec) H2L 2P3,jpbeland@wikimedia.ca mailto:jpbeland@wikimedia.ca
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2017-06-22 13:57 GMT+03:00 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org:
I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
year, so that we know in comparison?
There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
Heh, I'm not sure whether it was positive or negative :)
Jokes aside, this involved A LOT of work from the Haifa organizing team. Many months before the event Wikimedia Israel people (not me) contacted the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, explained to them what kind of event this is, and what kind of people come to it. The Ministry contacts were friendly and cooperative and suggested a process and an invitation letter.
Then, when the actual event was coming closer (May–June or so), yours truly spent about two weeks doing nothing but sleeping, eating, and helping hundreds of people get visas. Luckily, I was employed very part-time back then and I could easily afford to volunteer for this. I mostly followed the process that the ministry suggested, but I also remember very-late-night Skype calls with participants from faraway timezones who had trouble filling forms (different forms in each consulate!) and writing special invitation letters for participants that represents highly respected international organizations. Days before the event I remember more surprising international phone calls from my country's representatives in consulates, airports, and border-crossings around the world—sometimes asking about Wikipedians I knew in person, and sometimes about people whom I had to look up in lists of participants and verify that they're legit (in case you're wondering, they all were).
As far as _I_ know, there were two rejections in 2011, but there may have been others I don't know about.
I've been telling this story every time I had a chance to talk to Wikimania organizers after 2011. Visa rejections come up every year at least since 2010, the year I started following Wikimania. The current version of the Wikimania Handbook [1] also refers to this: "Visa assistance—This is probably one of the most time-consuming and complicated thing to consider... Writing these letters is a full-time job". While writing this email I added: "... a full-time job for about two weeks or even more", and I moved the suggested time for this to April–May instead of May–June.
The Wikimania Handbook is awesome, and it's written based on real experience—future organizers should take it seriously. (I'm _not_ implying that the 2017 organizers didn't take it seriously. I acknowledge that it's complicated and that every country is different.)
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Handbook
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
In 2013, a number of Wikimania attendees had their Hong Kong visas stuck in the pipeline at the local Chinese embassies with no response to any enquiry. A month before Wikimania, a local sponsor of Wikimania 2013 (DotAsia) agreed to be guarantor and negotiated directly with the Immigration Department of Hong Kong to secure the visas. The visas were then sent by registered mail to attendees. Much of that work involved me personally going to the Immigration Department headquarters in Hong Kong every working day for several weeks to get the paperwork right. In the end, we saved about a dozen visa applications and only one person was unable to come to Hong Kong due to visa issues.
I'm not sure about the Canadian system, but it is likely that Wikimedia Canada and the Wikimania committee can request the visa-issuing authorities in Canada to review the applications. The first steps would be to check who the relevant authorities are, and to ask all applicants with rejected visa applications to send the Wikimania organisers the details of rejection.
Re GN - Visa processes are usually the reverse of what you suggested. Normally the host organisation issues their invitation, confirms travel and accommodation arrangements, then the applicant goes to the relevant embassy. It is not feasible to apply for a visa before one makes travel arrangements.
Deryck
On 22 June 2017 at 11:13, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
What problems are expected for middle eastern attendees to Cape Town? What countries passports are expected to have problems?
Cheers,
Peter
From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gnangarra Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2017 12:14 PM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape Town . Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are made.
That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.
On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
That’s one of the reasons why I proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 - apart from its extremely tolerant social cultures and very low cost, while being a very modern hi-tech city easily accessible by direct flights from most parts of the world. Almost everyone can enter the country for at least 15 days without even a visa. Thailand only makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country on the pretext of being tourists.
It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but perhaps this will open up the possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
Kudpung.
On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work. The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come up.
Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed, but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is, has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford <nkansahrexford@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','nkansahrexford@gmail.com');> wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com');> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org'); https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all* attendees. In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will have the visa-related issues.
Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for applicants.
And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively high travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this dedicated assistance can drop further.
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work. The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come up.
Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed, but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is, has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior <stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk');> wrote:
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Following the Stuart's commentary, for Mexico City the low rate of rejection was not for free. I supposed my country was a friendly destination because their history welcoming people from all over the world until I was involved in the visa process for many wikimedians who faced different kind of issues. So I was engaged with WMF's staff to provide any evidence and documents to make fast responses to reduce the chances of rejection. Among the issues we had:
- A really annoying insistence of the consular authorities of Mexico rejecting documents in digital copies. We had to send many hard copies via express mail services - Consular officers insisted on proving in some way that the Wikimedia Foundation has funds against possible contingencies of the attendees. This was mainly because many of the officials who received the documents did not know anyything about Wikipedia and its fame. I remember me talking on conventional telephone several times from Mexico City to New Delhi to give more information. - Lack of Mexican embassies in all the attendees countries, so some people needs to travel to other country to the nearest embassy to get visa, so, chances of fail getting documents and doing procedures in other country which is not yours is risky.
In any case, having prior time is the only antidote. Some situations can be solved, but with anticipated time. Rules are rules and in consular proceedings much more no matter the country where the event will held and this is not really attributable to the people who are working supporting the process doing their best.
2017-06-22 9:34 GMT-05:00 Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com:
In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all* attendees. In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will have the visa-related issues.
Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for applicants.
And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively high travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this dedicated assistance can drop further.
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work. The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come up.
Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed, but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is, has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
On 22-Jun-2017 8:59 PM, "Ivan Martínez" galaver@gmail.com wrote:
Following the Stuart's commentary, for Mexico City the low rate of rejection was not for free. I supposed my country was a friendly destination because their history welcoming people from all over the world until I was involved in the visa process for many wikimedians who faced different kind of issues. So I was engaged with WMF's staff to provide any evidence and documents to make fast responses to reduce the chances of rejection. Among the issues we had:
- A really annoying insistence of the consular authorities of Mexico
rejecting documents in digital copies. We had to send many hard copies via express mail services
- Consular officers insisted on proving in some way that the Wikimedia
Foundation has funds against possible contingencies of the attendees. This was mainly because many of the officials who received the documents did not know anyything about Wikipedia and its fame. I remember me talking on conventional telephone several times from Mexico City to New Delhi to give more information.
- Lack of Mexican embassies in all the attendees countries, so some people
needs to travel to other country to the nearest embassy to get visa, so, chances of fail getting documents and doing procedures in other country which is not yours is risky.
In any case, having prior time is the only antidote. Some situations can be solved, but with anticipated time. Rules are rules and in consular proceedings much more no matter the country where the event will held and this is not really attributable to the people who are working supporting the process doing their best.
2017-06-22 9:34 GMT-05:00 Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com:
In addition, providing this *true assistance* won't be for *all* attendees. In many cases, only a select few of the total attendees will have the visa-related issues.
Thus, say out of 100 applicants, just less than 20 individuals might need the assistance beyond the letter at their local embassies. And over and over again, we know these countries that yearly present visa troubles for applicants.
And since it can be relatively easier for individuals with relatively high travel history to get visas, the actual people who might need this dedicated assistance can drop further.
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
Well, the goal won't be to *influence* or whatnot. That isn't gonna work. The goal is to provide extra details and answer questions that might come up.
Some systems aren't entirely closed. From the outside, it looks closed, but a closer look reveals there's the option for recognized organizations (keyword is "recognized") to stretch a hand.
Not all embassies in varied countries run the same. But the question is, has there been any attempt (stunt) of that sort pulled off ever?
And after spending a load ton of effort in organizing, if the invitees don't get to come, does that not bring us to where we began?
It ain't an easy or going to be an easy task. However, trying to dodge that also opens the opportunity for rejections easily.
Of course, it feels like a lottery. However, if there's anything one could do to tip the chances of 'winning' the lottery a bit to the bright side, won't that be a worthwhile effort, no matter how hard?
rex
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Stuart Prior stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk wrote:
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
-- *Iván Martínez*
*Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid *
// Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: https://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Stuart Prior <stuart.prior@wikimedia.org.uk
wrote:
Lodewijk, AFAIK we've never kept track of rejections, but I could find out. My gut feeling is that there hasn't been a massive variation over the past 4 years, I think Mexico City was the most open to everybody (?)
That would be good for perspective - I don't know any better than that there are complaints about scholarship rejections each year. Mexico may indeed have been the 'easiest'. But of course, rejections don't only happen to scholarship recipients, but also to self- or externally funded participants. I can imagine you won't have access to that data unless it's reported, though.
Rexford, possibly (and yeah Wiki = Wikileaks is *always* a problem lol). But some visa systems are very closed and bureaucratic and it's hard to bring any influence or assistance to bear beyond supporting documentation, i.e you can't even talk to a human being about it.
To *truly assist* some of it would involve building political contacts beforehand to advocate for visas (i.e your local representative can help sometimes), that's a possibility but may create other problems, capacity for a start. The logistics of organising travel/accomm for hundreds of people from hundreds of locations is already onerous, adding an intensive visa support process into that it when some visa systems feel like a lottery would be easy to overpromise and underdeliver.
What strikes me here is that visas are a problem for people from our developing communities, but they are one of many factors in deciding a Wikimania location. One country that might be visa-friendly to one, is prohibitively expensive to get to/stay in for another. So while Australia might be relaxed in terms of visas (I'm not confident of this btw) it's also objectively remote/expensive.
Whether a location has achieved that balance is always a question, and I can't think of one Wikimania where everyone's agreed it has ;-)
Stuart
On 22 June 2017 at 12:12, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexford@gmail.com wrote:
It is easy to conclude the location hinders visa application acceptance. As much as it appears to be so, I strongly believe if there's good enough Visa support and assistance from the Wikimania Team/WMF, rejected cases could be low.
Obviously, an applicant should have documents intact and good, and submit all the necessary details the embassy wants, including the invitation letter. However, in some countries, that ain't enough.
In 2012, the invitation letter I submitted to the consular at the US embassy here in Ghana, she didn't read, and I could see from her face how nonsense it looked to her. Heck, anybody anywhere could conjure such a sheet of paper with black ink on, any time any day. Plus, the consular had NO idea what Wikimedia was. There was no way I could explain what Wikimedia is in the few seconds I had in front of the teller-like counter.
Wiki? WikiLeaks? Duh!
As much a mere letter of invitation is formal to some extent, to what extent is the WMF also willing to support visa applications outside just the letter?
Not saying WMF should do exactly same, but I know other organizations that pick up the phone, and call the local embassy of the invitee way ahead of time to initialize conversations and to explain to *what extent* whoever they've invited fits in the about-to-happen event.
The embassy in many cases, asks questions they won't otherwise ask the applicant, but would, to the inviting organization.
This visa issue, until the WMF *truly assist*, some countries will still struggle getting accepted visa.
It is not easy, and it ain't something just a letter wipes away.
rex
PS: I know cases where rejected visa are reconsidered and approved just because the inviting organization literally stepped in, and got serious with the embassy.
On Thursday, June 22, 2017, Bodhisattwa Mandal < bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
Best wishes, Bodhisattwa
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-pa...
Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
from
these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/ selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national- canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan arminehaghayan@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
global
south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
from
these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day- celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
Best Regards Armine Aghayan
Wikipedia Editor Leading Human Resourses specialist at the Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
+374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
+374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
arminehaghayan@gmail.com
armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara. Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris . so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not make any travels.
Mardetanha
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan arminehaghayan@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
global
south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies
from
these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
Best Regards Armine Aghayan
Wikipedia Editor Leading Human Resourses specialist at the Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
+374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
+374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
arminehaghayan@gmail.com
armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
That makes it sound even worse (creepy even, given the 8 weeks and counting time frame)
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Mardetanha mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara. Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris . so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not make any travels.
Mardetanha
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote:
Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan arminehaghayan@gmail.com wrote:
Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
global
south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
embassies from
these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/select ed-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celeb rations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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--
Best Regards Armine Aghayan
Wikipedia Editor Leading Human Resourses specialist at the Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
+374 77209096 <+374%2077%20209096>
+374 43053700 <+374%2043%20053700>
arminehaghayan@gmail.com
armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
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Sadly not just Canada.
I know the UK keeps the passport of applicants while they process the visa, and Georgians applying for a UK visa will have that processed in Ankara. Though the 8 weeks is slow for a visitor visa, not much chance to attend a funeral with that.
On a more practical note, this is a recurring problem - we certainly had issues in London and I know there have been other venues where there have been problems. Would it be possible to find some venues that are generally open for visitors and rotate Wikimania between them? Or at worst rotate Wikimania between closed and open countries. We are a global movement and if some of us have visa issues it should be are a problem for all of us.
Regards
Jonathan
On 2 Jul 2017, at 08:13, Mardetanha mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara. Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris. so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not make any travels.
Mardetanha
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell jane023@gmail.com wrote: Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan arminehaghayan@gmail.com wrote: Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-pa...
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
--
Best Regards Armine Aghayan
Wikipedia Editor Leading Human Resourses specialist at the Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
+374 77209096
+374 43053700
arminehaghayan@gmail.com
armine.aghayan@mtcit.am
armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am
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I think this another good argument for holding Wikimania in a country like Thailand where I live, that has one of the most open travel doors in the world. The nationals of most countries can arrive here without any special documentation except of course a valid passport, and stay for at least two weeks. All they might be asked for on arrival is to show their return air ticket.
Kudpung
On 2Jul, 2017, at 17:26, Jonathan Cardy werespielchequers@gmail.com wrote:
Sadly not just Canada.
I know the UK keeps the passport of applicants while they process the visa, and Georgians applying for a UK visa will have that processed in Ankara. Though the 8 weeks is slow for a visitor visa, not much chance to attend a funeral with that.
On a more practical note, this is a recurring problem - we certainly had issues in London and I know there have been other venues where there have been problems. Would it be possible to find some venues that are generally open for visitors and rotate Wikimania between them? Or at worst rotate Wikimania between closed and open countries. We are a global movement and if some of us have visa issues it should be are a problem for all of us.
Regards
Jonathan
On 2 Jul 2017, at 08:13, Mardetanha <mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com mailto:mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
Canadian visas are kinda different from rest of the world, Iran, Azerbaijan and Georgia and turkey are considered in Visa center in Ankara. Most Arabic countries are being considered in Amman Jordan. some Caucasian are being considered in Moscow and in Europe most are in VAC office in Paris. so depending on your country of origin your document might be reviewed and sent to other countries, another strange point is throughout the process, they keep your passport, so it means that for unclear time-frame you can not make any travels.
Mardetanha
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com mailto:jane023@gmail.com> wrote: Wow so sorry to read this, Armine! If the pillars of our community are having their visas "rejected-by-filing-in-Moscow" then this is surely newsworthy? Maybe someone can run a piece on this problem? This case in particular is pretty shocking to me.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Armine Aghayan <arminehaghayan@gmail.com mailto:arminehaghayan@gmail.com> wrote: Hello all,
I am from Armenia and I applid for a temporary Canadian visa on May 8, 2017 from the Canada visa application centre (CVAC) in Armenia. My documents were transferred from CVAC in Armenia to Embassy of Canada to Moscow on May 15, 2017. On http://www.cic.gc.ca http://www.cic.gc.ca/ page it says that documents for citizens of Armenia can be viewed within 2 weeks (without transfer time). It's already 8 weeks my documents are under review. Because of this uncertain delay I lost my trip to participate in WikiWomen Camp. On June 12, 2017 I wrote a letter to immagration office to Moscow and have this reply: Your application is under review. Processing times can take longer when verifications are needed and no specific time for completion can be confirmed. You will be notified once a decision is made.
On May 27, I wrote them telling that scholarship applicatnts visa deadline is near and again got the same answer back. So from May 8 up to now the Canadian Moscow visa office is reviewing my docs.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 1:05 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk mailto:andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: On 22 June 2017 at 10:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com mailto:bodhisattwa.rgkmc@gmail.com> wrote:
The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these countries.
Today in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said:
“Ours is a land of original peoples, and of newcomers. And our greatest pride is that you can come here from anywhere in the world, build a good life and be part of our community. We don’t care where you’re from, or what religion you practice, or whom you love, you are all welcome in Canada!”
http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-pa... http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/selected-quotes-from-participants-in-the-national-canada-day-celebrations/wcm/14f154e7-9fe4-49f5-9423-fcebad451962
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk http://pigsonthewing.org.uk/
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--
Best Regards Armine Aghayan
Wikipedia Editor Leading Human Resourses specialist at the Ministry of Transport, Communication and Informational Technologies of RA
+374 77209096 tel:+374%2077%20209096 +374 43053700 tel:+374%2043%20053700
arminehaghayan@gmail.com mailto:arminehaghayan@gmail.com armine.aghayan@mtcit.am mailto:armine.aghayan@mtcit.am armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am mailto:armine.aghayan@wikimedia.am _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts) * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent * Mexico: 67 * UK: 91 * Italy: 93 * Hong Kong: 144 (Some other countries mentioned here) * Australia: 34 * Thailand: 78 * Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per what you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy which is not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit without visa but 1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is not an option at all (like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come back) 2- if we pass that point, they are really difficult on giving visa to Muslim/Arab countries passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh and can deny entry on strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a not-visa-needed country. What you just need is to look slightly non-Western and they give you hell in border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.
Best
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
-- Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
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I would rather say it should not be the only measure. Of course Israel is a very special case (and so are countries whose governments ban Israeli citizens from entering their countries).
Other than that we have multiple measures of visa-friendliness: * number of countries whose citizens do not need to apply for a visa * availability of embassies abroad, particularly in countries that are not visa-free (say, Canada has an extensive network of embassies all over the world, including countries whose citizens need visas) * visa application rejection rate * frequency of denial of entry at border control.
I do not intend to promote any country, I just want everyone to be fair and do not call a country "visa-friendly" if in reality more than half of countries need visas there, and vice versa. * A visa-friendly country looks like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Maldives * A country that is not visa-friendly looks like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_North_Korea
Mykola (NickK) --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "Amir Ladsgroup" ladsgroup@gmail.com Дата: 3 липня 2017, 00:17:31
Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per what you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy which is not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit without visa but 1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is not an option at all (like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come back) 2- if we pass that point, they are really difficult on giving visa to Muslim/Arab countries passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh and can deny entry on strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a not-visa-needed country. What you just need is to look slightly non-Western and they give you hell in border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.
Best
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts) * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent * Mexico: 67 * UK: 91 * Italy: 93 * Hong Kong: 144 (Some other countries mentioned here) * Australia: 34 * Thailand: 78 * Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
Number of countries not requiring a visa is a misleading metric, some visas are basically a tourist tax paid on entry to the country and some are a filter system to keep out anyone who might overstay and become an illegal migrant. That's before you get into the issue of some countries being much more important to us than others. For example India has several thousand times the population of Iceland.
We have had previous discussions on this over the years and I remember people giving figures as to the number of Visa refusals for Hong Kong, London and DC. All three were problems, and that's before you count the people who don't apply because they have good reason to believe they won't get a visa for that country.
I appreciate there are several other factors to worry about, we don't want Wikimania in a war zone, typhoon, or where there is a risk of wikimedians being arrested for their sexual orientation or views on religion, and we do need it to be close to a well connected international airport.
But it would be good to give more weight to the visa issue, and maybe invite some national tourist boards to pitch for a Wikimania with one of the criteria being their openness to such a global event.
Regards
Jonathan
On 2 Jul 2017, at 23:17, Amir Ladsgroup ladsgroup@gmail.com wrote:
Number of countries that can enter a country without visa is not a good measurement for a country being visa-friendly. Let's use your example. Per what you said it seems Israel is a more visa friendly country than Italy which is not correct. It's correct Israel allows more people to visit without visa but 1- For a handful number of countries visiting Israel is not an option at all (like mine which has twenty years in jail when I come back) 2- if we pass that point, they are really difficult on giving visa to Muslim/Arab countries passport holders. 3- The border control is very harsh and can deny entry on strange reasons even with valid visa or passport of a not-visa-needed country. What you just need is to look slightly non-Western and they give you hell in border. It happened in a recent Wikimedia event.
Best
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 2:33 AM Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote: Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
-- Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
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Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa regardless of country by the organisors. That over 100 countries can apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process within 72 hours but what would I know having only worked in the tourism industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om 3rd party sites as facts.
On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
-- Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]] PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
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Hi Gnagarra,
if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like 'visa in my country are super easy'. (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that like to share about their visa policies)
Best, Lodewijk
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa regardless of country by the organisors. That over 100 countries can apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process within 72 hours but what would I know having only worked in the tourism industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om 3rd party sites as facts.
On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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I have on 4 occassions put forward Perth WA bids, including for 2017, 2018 and 2019, my response was purely to highlight that information being put forward in this email thread that was incorrect and later praise as nice to facts being presented. NO intention of usurping this thread. I'm well aware of what it takes to host such a large event.
I know what the significance being able to attend a Wikimania is and feel for those who are having visa problems
On 27 July 2017 at 14:34, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Gnagarra,
if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like 'visa in my country are super easy'. (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that like to share about their visa policies)
Best, Lodewijk
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa regardless of country by the organisors. That over 100 countries can apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process within 72 hours but what would I know having only worked in the tourism industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om 3rd party sites as facts.
On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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Hi, I am Balaji. User:Balajijagadesh from India. Yesterday My visa application was rejected with the reply that "Having a legitimate business purpose in Canada".
Best wishes far people participating in wikimania
Regards, J. Balaji
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
I have on 4 occassions put forward Perth WA bids, including for 2017, 2018 and 2019, my response was purely to highlight that information being put forward in this email thread that was incorrect and later praise as nice to facts being presented. NO intention of usurping this thread. I'm well aware of what it takes to host such a large event.
I know what the significance being able to attend a Wikimania is and feel for those who are having visa problems
On 27 July 2017 at 14:34, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Gnagarra,
if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like 'visa in my country are super easy'. (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that like to share about their visa policies)
Best, Lodewijk
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra gnangarra@gmail.com wrote:
Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa regardless of country by the organisors. That over 100 countries can apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process within 72 hours but what would I know having only worked in the tourism industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om 3rd party sites as facts.
On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko mycola-k@ukr.net wrote:
Hi,
For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English) Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures: (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
- Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
equivalent
- Mexico: 67
- UK: 91
- Italy: 93
- Hong Kong: 144
(Some other countries mentioned here)
- Australia: 34
- Thailand: 78
- Israel: 96
Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established Wikimedia chapter.
Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
Thanks Mykola (NickK)
--- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: "DaB." wp@dabpunkt.eu Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehmanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
We have a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee. Those people were notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July. We have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted the scholarship offer with names from there.
Ellie WMF Event Manager
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr rehman.wikimedia@live.com wrote:
Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
Very sad to hear this.
On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
We have a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee. Those people were notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July. We have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted the scholarship offer with names from there.
Ellie WMF Event Manager
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikimedia@live.com
wrote:
Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
Wikimania-l mailing list Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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Hi Ranjith,
Am I reading correctly that Viswa has a Canadian passport? If he has one, then he doesn’t need a visa to go to Montréal.
Best regards,
Josh
On Jul 31, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Ranjith S ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com wrote:
On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
Very sad to hear this.
On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" <eyoung@wikimedia.org mailto:eyoung@wikimedia.org> wrote: We have a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee. Those people were notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July. We have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted the scholarship offer with names from there.
Ellie WMF Event Manager
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikimedia@live.com mailto:rehman.wikimedia@live.com> wrote: Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
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JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM Bachelor of Arts in Political Science Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582 Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor http://joshlim.me http://joshlim.me/
Sorry my bad. He is holding a us visa. Not Canadian passport.
But still got a rejection.
On 31-Jul-2017 8:22 AM, "Josh Lim" jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Ranjith,
Am I reading correctly that Viswa has a Canadian passport? If he has one, then he doesn’t need a visa to go to Montréal.
Best regards,
Josh
On Jul 31, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Ranjith S ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com wrote:
On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
Very sad to hear this.
On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
We have a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee. Those people were notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July. We have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted the scholarship offer with names from there.
Ellie WMF Event Manager
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr < rehman.wikimedia@live.com> wrote:
Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
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*JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM* Bachelor of Arts in Political Science Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582 <+63%20977%20831%207582> Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor http://joshlim.me
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I'm sorry...but this one is a red flag.
Canadian passports are only issued to Canadian citizens, and Canadian citizens do not require a visa to come to Canada, regardless of where in the world they are when they start their trip. They must enter Canada using their Canadian passport for any related travel information (i.e., using the Canadian passport for airline information), at the time of boarding and at the time of arrival in Canada. If ViswaPrabha is a dual citizen, then both passports should be carried at all times.
If he applied for a visa, he received horrible advice. If he is a Canadian citizen, he can probably still travel, and should contact the Ministry of Immigration and Citizenship directly.
Risker/Anne
On 30 July 2017 at 22:51, Ranjith S ranjith.sajeev@gmail.com wrote:
On a conversation with ViswaPrabha he confirmed that he got visa rejection from Canadian embessy so can't participate in this wikimania.
He is holding a Canadian passport but got bad.
Very sad to hear this.
On 28-Jul-2017 3:50 AM, "Ellie Young" eyoung@wikimedia.org wrote:
We have a waitlist from the original pool of people who made it into Phase 2 consideration by the Scholarship committee. Those people were notified that they might be offered a scholarship as late as mid-July. We have filled the people who couldn't attend for whatever reason after they accepted the scholarship offer with names from there.
Ellie WMF Event Manager
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 3:48 AM, Rehman Abubakr < rehman.wikimedia@live.com> wrote:
Excuse me for the blunt question. But are there any shortlisted candidates this time?
A fellow Wikimedian asked me this, and I though I might as well ask the same on this thread.
I'm sure there would be a lot of genuinely interested Wikimedians who would like to attend the conference, in lieu of the sheer number of rejected applicants. (with respect to the successful applicants who would not be able to make it, of course)
Thanks and regards,
User:Rehman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rehman
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Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
Kudpung
On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. wp@dabpunkt.eu wrote:
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), without particular problems.
But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.
A.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
Kudpung
On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. wp@dabpunkt.eu wrote:
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points already defined in the previous emails.
One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that can manage Visas and related problems with visas.
So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this point.
Kind regards
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Asaf Bartov Sent: 03 July 2017 04:43 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), without particular problems.
But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.
A.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs cs@edubkk.org wrote: Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
Kudpung
On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. wp@dabpunkt.eu wrote:
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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A country that almost everyone can go to is important
A country that most can afford to go to is important
A country where most can reasonably expect to be reasonably safe is important.
Without these the purpose of the event cannot be achieved
Safety is often a matter of choosing where you go and what you do. There is no utopia available. If you are so privileged that you can afford to go anywhere and don’t have visa problems anywhere, lucky you, but you don’t have to assume we are all in that situation.
Managing visa applications is the issue we are trying to deal with here (see the thread title), Advice that actually has some chance of practical applicability to this specific problem is welcome. For the rest please start another thread.
Personal prejudice against the local regime is a personal choice, and less important if the previous requirements are met.
Cheers,
Peter
From: Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Ilario Valdelli Sent: Monday, 03 July 2017 10:02 AM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points already defined in the previous emails.
One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that can manage Visas and related problems with visas.
So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this point.
Kind regards
Sent from Mail https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 for Windows 10
From: Asaf Bartov mailto:abartov@wikimedia.org Sent: 03 July 2017 04:43 To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) mailto:wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), without particular problems.
But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.
A.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
Kudpung
On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. wp@dabpunkt.eu wrote:
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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Yes I was wondering about that. Helping people with visa applications is not a Wikimedia specialty (though I appreciate the work that has gone into the meta Learning patterns and those Wikipedia pages on visa policy that were linked earlier).
I am thinking that maybe we need local collaboration on visa issues through our chapter representatives with e.g. local conference holders? Maybe in local academia?
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Ilario Valdelli < ilario.valdelli@wikimedia.ch> wrote:
And to progress the best is to don’t forget some interesting points already defined in the previous emails.
One factual point is to have locally a mature and stable organization that can manage Visas and related problems with visas.
So, instead of speaking about dictatorships, the best is to stress this point.
Kind regards
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*From: *Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org *Sent: *03 July 2017 04:43 *To: *Wikimania general list (open subscription) wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org *Subject: *Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections
DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), without particular problems.
But I suggest that this thread is not helped by personal opinions of countries. I applaud Mykola for introducing actual data into the discussion.
A.
On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 6:48 PM cs cs@edubkk.org wrote:
Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I’ve lived here for nearly 20 years along with a million other Western expats. Or would you prefer SA with its extremely high crime rate and a history of bigotry that still lingers to this day. Now that’s a place I won’t be gong to.
Kudpung
On 3Jul, 2017, at 04:19, DaB. wp@dabpunkt.eu wrote:
Hello, Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
a country like Thailand where I live
you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
Sincerely, DaB.
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Hello, Am 03.07.2017 um 04:41 schrieb Asaf Bartov:
DaB.: Wikimania has already been held in a military dictatorship (Egypt, 2008), without particular problems.
that’s not a reason to repeat the mistake. If you held an event (especially such a big one as the Wikimania) in a dictatorship, you support this dictatorship. You support the suppression of free speech and other human rights.
And cs, just to quote enwp:
“Since May 2014 Thailand has been ruled by a military junta, the National Council for Peace and Order, which has partially repealed the 2007 constitution, declared martial law and nationwide curfew, banned political gatherings, arrested and detained politicians and anti-coup activists, imposed internet censorship and taken control of the media.”
The conflicts of the yellow- and the red-shirt-people were so bad you even got reports in European news-programs on TV, and so was the conflict of the Preah Vihear Temple. So please try not to fool me.
Thailand is surely a great country, but it has many problems (dictatorship, civil uprisings, corruption, police-corruption, high number of deaths on road traffic, and so on) that makes it unsuitable for a conference.
Sincerely, DaB.
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