I would add, as a complete non-expert, that in terms of socioeconomics, it is fairly likely that most potential contributors to Northern Luri Wikipedia would be near the population (and commercial/education) centers, and therefore likely to use (or at least be quite comfortable with and accepting of) the Khorramabadi (central) dialect, even if it is "less pure" or "less Luri" by some definition.
Mjbmr: I think you've shared valuable information here, but you do need to exercise more patience with the process. LangCom deals with complex decisions that are relatively high-stakes, in the sense that once things are set in motion they are quite difficult and perhaps impossible to undo/reverse. So deliberation and patience are the natural modes for it.
A.
On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote:
You can simply ignore comments you don't like instead of showing nice of you.
On 5/6/2015 10:00 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Non-members may be asked to shut up. Members vote, their opinion counts. Thanks, GerardM
On 6 May 2015 at 18:56, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote:
I have rights to speak and give my opinion whether you like it not. You're not locals, I'm sharing my knowledge.
On 5/6/2015 8:32 PM, MF-Warburg wrote:
I would appreciate it if non-members could be reserved in throwing
around their own expertise and dismissing linguists' opinions, if they are not themselves experts in this field.
On 5/6/2015 9:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Please do not be unnecessarily negative.. Preferences are just that. Thanks, Gere
On 6 May 2015 at 17:49, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote:
If Anonby thinks that it's a shame Lurish must use more old Lurish verbs that new driven from Persian verbs, then we should start speaking in Old English. btw Mohammad Mogoei (Mogoeilor) is native Northeren Luri from capital of Lurestan province and he knows all dialects of Luri language including Southern and Bakhtiari.
On 5/6/2015 8:00 PM, MF-Warburg wrote:
I. We still haven't formally said yet that Northern Luri is an eligible language, but it seems like there is no issue with it. II. Activity: Most-used msgs are complete [1] & contributions on Incubator are steady since >12 months (thousands of small edits always by Mogoeilor, who should use preview more often, but also contributions from other users), though so far in this month only 2 users over the 10-edit-threshold [2]. III. About Erik Anonby's response, I wonder how "welcoming" the peculiarities noted by him would be to other speakers of the language who do not use this particular dialect. Should we maybe ask him or Mehdi Moshkriz for their opinion on that?
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=lrc [2] < https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/lrc&...
2015-04-28 10:44 GMT+02:00 Oliver Stegen info@oliverstegen.net:
Have we passed step #1 yet? i.e. has Northern Luri fulfilled the requirements for leaving the incubator? If yes, is the aforementioned Erik Anonby an acceptable reference? I've actually met him several years ago at a linguistics conference, so if we all agree that we've concluded step #1, I'd be happy to contact him to see whether he himself could verify Northern Luri or whether he could recommend someone else to do so for us.
Fwiw, Oliver
On 28-Apr-15 1:15 AM, Asaf Bartov wrote:
Thanks, that sounds perfectly reasonable. Is there an owner to the process, e.g. a committee secretary, to ensure that in case of silence after asking #2, there is actual progress toward #3, so that it doesn't fall between the cracks?
A.On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:38 PM, MF-Warburg mfwarburg@googlemail.com wrote:
We obviously discuss
- whether at this stage we need to verify the content at all
- if yes, whether someone knows an expert already
- if no, whom to contact.
Then we contact people.
2015-04-27 22:51 GMT+02:00 Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org:
I'm not clear on the committee's process: Is it the expectation of this committee that nothing will happen until Someone<tm> produces expert testimony confirming that the content currently in the Northern Luri Wikipedia is in fact Northern Luri? Or is the committee taking any steps to secure such testimony?
A.On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi, > Reading an article does not make us an expert. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 27 April 2015 at 15:17, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: > >> Here's the article I found titled "Update on Luri: How many >> languages?" by Erik John Anonby: original link >> http://anonby.balafon.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/jra-172-171-197.pdf, >> you can see on the figure #2, said "Luri-Lurestani-khorramabadi" is the >> main dialect and "Luri-Borujerdi" is the other dialect of Northern Luri >> (lrc), and on the figure #3 shown west of current Iran's map, said >> "Lurestani" is the main area of Northern Luri (lrc), lower on these >> dialects is "Laki" on the figure #2 sands for Laki language (lki) , and >> "Laki" area on the figure #3. On the figure #2 upper of Northern Luri (lrc) >> dialects you can see the "Bakhtiari" (bqi) dialects and "Kohkiloyeh" and >> "Bouyerahmad" (Southern Luri [luz]) as well. On pages #186 to #197 you can >> compares the example differences between these languages. >> >> >> >> On 4/27/2015 2:14 PM, Oliver Stegen wrote: >> >> As I mentioned also concerning Western Balochi, we need an outside >> scholar / linguist / language expert for verification purposes. Any useful >> bona-fide contacts? >> >> On 25-Apr-15 6:41 PM, Mjbmr wrote: >> >> This >> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/lrc/%D9%86%D9%88%D9%85%DA%AF%D9%87_%DA%AF%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%8C%D8%A7_%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1 >> is the list of top articles was provided by Mogoeilor, even he named the >> language of this wikipedia, Northern Luri on their main page, and I didn't >> see that. >> >> On 4/25/2015 11:27 AM, Mjbmr wrote: >> >> Yes. >> >> On 4/25/2015 11:22 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >> >> Hoi, >> A longstanding requirement for any and all languages is that they >> have to have an ISO-639-3 code and, that they are a language not a macro >> language. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 25 April 2015 at 08:16, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> There is no such thing as they are a resources of world's >>> languages, people are the resources and they only maintainer code, the >>> unified codes that the world uses. Is there any confirmation of Luri >>> Wikipedia yet? >>> >>> >>> On 4/25/2015 10:31 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>> >>> Hoi, >>> Ethnologue is the maintainer of the ISO-639-3. As such they are an >>> authority. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 25 April 2015 at 06:34, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> You're right, I can't trust a self verification too, but what do >>>> you expect me do to?, you can probably find a lot of trustable resources on >>>> the Internet, I my self can't even trust ethnologue, because I found >>>> unuseful information on it and I don't know where they come from, at least >>>> in Wikipedia, we have resources, I didn't expect that from you. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/25/2015 8:46 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>>> >>>> Hoi, >>>> Wikipedia is in this not an authority. It has never been. Again, >>>> self certification does not work for me.. We have been hurt by that before. >>>> Thanks, >>>> GerardM >>>> >>>> On 25 April 2015 at 00:03, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Alright then, that's Northern Luri, fair enough, I didn't have >>>>> any knowledge that there is a southern dialect of it and people of >>>>> Kohgiluyeh and Boyerahmadi, and Yasuj speak that, I only knew Lorestan, but >>>>> per English wikipedia, they're dialects of Northern Luri which this wiki is >>>>> written in. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/25/2015 2:12 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>> Check this out ... http://www.ethnologue.com/subgroups/luri-0 >>>>> >>>>> It rather complicates things... By the way self certification >>>>> is not a good idea. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> GerardM >>>>> >>>>> On 24 April 2015 at 22:45, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes. 100%, as I live Iran and I know some parts of this >>>>>> language, it is definitely Luri. Mohammad Mogoei (User:Mogoeilor) the most >>>>>> active user of this project is from Lorestan so definitely he speaks in >>>>>> this language every day. In Iran it's called Luri, some people call it >>>>>> Lurish >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Lurish >>>>>> as the translation for English, per this >>>>>> http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=lrc the >>>>>> language should be called Northern Luri, but none of it dialects are called >>>>>> Luri, so I call it Luri too. I have also submitted and now accepted a >>>>>> ticket to CLDR to support this language. Other proposal of dialects of this >>>>>> language like Bakhtiari >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Bakhtiari >>>>>> failed because of being a part of this language. Also they list of article >>>>>> I've just provided are the best of them as you can see there are no Persian >>>>>> words in them. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/25/2015 12:37 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hoi, >>>>>> Do we have confirmation that it is indeed Luri ? >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Gerard >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 April 2015 at 20:42, Mjbmr mjbmri@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I ask langcom members for approval of Luri Wikipedia, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> here are some top articles I could list, but there are more of >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. استیو جابز >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA%DB%8C%D9%88_%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%B2 >>>>>>> (Steve Jobs) >>>>>>> 2. آلورت انیشتین >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%D8%A2%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%AA_%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%B4%D8%AA%DB%8C%D9%86 >>>>>>> (Albert Einstein) >>>>>>> 3. کلمبیا >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%DA%A9%D9%84%D9%85%D8%A8%DB%8C%D8%A7 >>>>>>> (Colombia) >>>>>>> 4. شهید چمران >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%D8%B4%D9%87%DB%8C%D8%AF_%DA%86%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86 >>>>>>> (Mostafa Chamran) >>>>>>> 5. شایا عیلامی >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%D8%B4%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%A7_%D8%B9%DB%8C%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%85%DB%8C >>>>>>> (List of rulers of Elam) >>>>>>> 6. کارلوس فوئنتس >>>>>>> http:///wiki/Wp/lrc/%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%84%D9%88%D8%B3_%D9%81%D9%88%D8%A6%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B3 >>>>>>> (Carlos Fuentes) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Analysis >>>>>>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/meta/catanalysis/index.php?cat=0&title=Wp/lrc&wiki=incubatorwiki#list_editors >>>>>>> shows that this project has enough users and most of >>>>>>> mediawiki message >>>>>>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/robin/?tool=codelookup&code=lrchas >>>>>>> been translated. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list >>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list >>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing listLangcom@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list >> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list > Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom > >
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