Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Northwest African Arabic<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Northw…>: This request was apparently created by Milos in 2011 in response to this older request<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Algero…>. There is no language code associated with the request. I would note that
* There are approved requests for "Moroccan Arabic" and "Algerian Arabic", as well as an open request for "Tunisian Arabic".
* The only one of the three tests that is very active now is the Algerian test<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Jazayri>, which is being driven to a great extent by the university in Chlef, Algeria. (See this page<https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bachounda#Preparing_for_appr…> and this page<https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Projets_p%C3%A9dagogiques/Univ…>.) The general approach in this project is to try to make it accessible to all speakers of Maghrebi Arabic. (One of the test administrators on this project is a founding member of the Wikimedia Tunisian User Group, and is also a founding member of the Wikiproject Maghrebi Arabic. For good measure, he's also a test-admin on the Tunisian test.)
On the whole, this separate request is no longer necessary. I will wait a few days for comments, but otherwise I plan to reject, directing interested parties to the Algerian test.
Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Marwari<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Marwari>: This carries the language code of a macrolanguage. I've asked Satdeep Gill for comments, and User:Liuxinyu970226 has asked Wikimedia India and WMCUG Pakistan for comments. Neither of us has received a response yet. So I'm marking this as "in progress" for the time being.
Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Mam<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Mam> . I think this is eligible. There are about a half-million speakers in Guatemala and neighboring regions of Mexico, and there is some instruction in the language in Guatemalan schools. The test has ten pages, generally created around the time of the request, but people have poked around them periodically.
Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Colloquial Cantonese<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Colloq…>. There is no language code for this. Effectively, it's a proposal to create a second Cantonese Wikipedia in a combination of Han and Bopomofo<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bopomofo> characters. The idea is that using Bopomofo, rather than Latin, for transcribing concepts not having native Chinese characters is more natively accurate. Even if this approach is valid—and one comment on Talk:Language committee suggests that it isn't used anywhere in real life—it is not sufficiently different from the existing Cantonese Wikipedia to merit a separate project. The proposer has not been active on any WMF project except for making this proposal in 2011. Again, I will wait a few days. But I intend to reject, with a suggestion that if anyone actually has an interest in this, they approach the existing Cantonese Wikipedia about incorporating it.
Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Libyan Arabic<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Libyan…>. Notwithstanding what was just written about Maghrebi, this test has only two articles and one redirect, dating to the time of the proposal. Rejecting as stale.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
MarcoAurelio, I guess I should have stated my point a little differently. You are right that policy allows the closure of this project for the reasons you state. Still, LangCom's execution of that policy in recent times has been to give projects the benefit of the doubt and to keep them open, except in cases where the spam content makes that completely inappropriate. As MF-Warburg likes to point out, having the projects open makes them easier to reinvigorate if and when people show up who are interested in doing so. Otherwise, it takes some effort to move them to Incubator, and then to reverse the process later on.
Given the above, taking the first question (should the project be closed and locked), policy allows that. I don't especially favor that, but then I don't have a vote here. And, to be sure, (a) there is not a lot of evidence that there are people interested in reinvigorating the project now, and (b) while the community such as it is doesn't exactly support the proposal, it does not object, either.
The second question, though, is whether or not it should be moved to Incubator if closed. If one item, the Python book, is valid, then it should be moved to Incubator. What I would propose, then, is the following:
* Let's get some more opinions from LangCom members who have not weighed in yet: Should this project be locked?
* If the answer to that ends up being "yes", then we ask User:Jagwar (the one relatively active participant) to identify what content is actually useful. Whatever content he identifies as useful gets moved to Incubator.
I'd also like to establish the idea that part of what makes this proposal work is that the community does not object. If there are similar cases identified, but those communities object, I would not like to see projects closed over those objections.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
That is only appropriate if the current content is actually junk. If it's legitimate, either it gets transferred or the original project stays open.
MA, current policy is not to close projects unless they are infested with spam. I am quite worried that if we close this we will end up closing many others. That might well make the lives of stewards and GS a little easier, but it mostly runs against the grain of WMF's mission.
Steven White
From: langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 1:25 PM
Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 17
To: langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Send Langcom mailing list submissions to langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org You can reach the person managing the list at langcom-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Langcom digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (MarcoAurelio) 2. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (Gerard Meijssen) 3. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (MF-Warburg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 16:28:31 +0100 From: MarcoAurelio To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator if that's okay. 2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. I > do not object to the project being locked. > Thanks, > Gerard > > On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio wrote: > >> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that >> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no >> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock >> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA. >> >> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >> >>> Hoi, >>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this >>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White wrote: >>> >>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks >>>> on >>>> Meta. >>>> >>>> >>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for >>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on >>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it >>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them >>>> to Incubator. >>>> >>>> >>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues >>>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, >>>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people >>>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material >>>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy >>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as >>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to >>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some >>>> other opinions about this. >>>> >>>> >>>> Steven >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Outlook >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list >>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list >>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list >> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list > Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 17:52:18 +0100 From: Gerard Meijssen To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hoi, When it is about a Wikibooks, I do not need a period in the Incubator. As far as I am concerned, they can just move forward. Thanks, GerardM On 21 March 2018 at 16:28, MarcoAurelio wrote: > We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they > wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator > if that's okay. > > 2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > >> Hoi, >> Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. >> I do not object to the project being locked. >> Thanks, >> Gerard >> >> On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio wrote: >> >>> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that >>> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no >>> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock >>> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA. >>> >>> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >>> >>>> Hoi, >>>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this >>>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need. >>>> Thanks, >>>> GerardM >>>> >>>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White wrote: >>>> >>>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy >>>>> Wikibooks >>>>> on >>>>> Meta. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for >>>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on >>>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it >>>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them >>>>> to Incubator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues >>>>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, >>>>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people >>>>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material >>>>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy >>>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as >>>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to >>>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some >>>>> other opinions about this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steven >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Outlook >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list >>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list >>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list >> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list > Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:25:03 +0100 From: MF-Warburg To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Do you even know what you are talking about? Am 21.03.2018 5:52 nachm. schrieb "Gerard Meijssen" < gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>: > Hoi, > When it is about a Wikibooks, I do not need a period in the Incubator. As > far as I am concerned, they can just move forward. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 21 March 2018 at 16:28, MarcoAurelio wrote: > >> We can lock and leave the "content" there and inform people that if they >> wish to contribute further they can start a test project on the Incubator >> if that's okay. >> >> 2018-03-21 15:33 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >> >>> Hoi, >>> Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. >>> I do not object to the project being locked. >>> Thanks, >>> Gerard >>> >>> On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio wrote: >>> >>>> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that >>>> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no >>>> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock >>>> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA. >>>> >>>> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this >>>>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> GerardM >>>>> >>>>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy >>>>>> Wikibooks >>>>>> on >>>>>> Meta. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for >>>>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on >>>>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it >>>>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them >>>>>> to Incubator. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues >>>>>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, >>>>>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people >>>>>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material >>>>>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy >>>>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as >>>>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to >>>>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some >>>>>> other opinions about this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steven >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Outlook >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list >>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Langcom mailing list >>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Langcom mailing list >> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list > Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik… ------------------------------ End of Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 17 ***************************************
Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_M…> on Meta.
The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them to Incubator.
User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch, and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people in the community have responded: one user who really the only material contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some other opinions about this.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
No, that's not appropriate, Gerard. Either it stays open or it gets moved to Incubator. It's not right to lock it and then leave it there so that no one else can decide to pick it up.
Steven White
________________________________
From: Langcom <langcom-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org <langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:34:13 AM
To: langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fwd: [Mediawiki-i18n] [x-post] Wikimedia Language team
online meeting on March 28 instead of March 21 [was Re: [x-post]
Wikimedia Language team office hour and online meeting on March
21, 2018 (Wednesday) at 1300 UTC] (Satdeep Gill)
2. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (MarcoAurelio)
3. Re: Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks (Gerard Meijssen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 18:32:39 +0530
From: Satdeep Gill <satdeepgill(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Fwd: [Mediawiki-i18n] [x-post] Wikimedia
Language team online meeting on March 28 instead of March 21 [was Re:
[x-post] Wikimedia Language team office hour and online meeting on
March 21, 2018 (Wednesday) at 1300 UTC]
Message-ID:
<CABMAr+fRBZ0SA1yPcjGuwsDk0h===-MPqcDBHPBV6aY__w5HvQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Just saw this email :)
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Virus-free.
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Regards
Satdeep Gill
Community Outreach Coordinator, Wikimedia Foundation
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Co-founder, Punjabi Wikimedians
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On 20 March 2018 at 18:10, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In case you planned to come to this session, this was delayed to next week.
>
> The "unavoidable reason" is that I am not feeling well :)
>
> I do hope to see you there!
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wo…
> “We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Runa Bhattacharjee <rbhattacharjee(a)wikimedia.org>
> Date: 2018-03-20 14:09 GMT+02:00
> Subject: [Mediawiki-i18n] [x-post] Wikimedia Language team online meeting
> on March 28 instead of March 21 [was Re: [x-post] Wikimedia Language team
> office hour and online meeting on March 21, 2018 (Wednesday) at 1300 UTC]
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>,
> Wikimedia developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, Wikimedia &
> GLAM collaboration [Public] <glam(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, MediaWiki
> internationalisation <mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
>
> Hello,
>
> Due to unavoidable reasons, we have had to move this online session to
> next week, on 28th March 2018. The time will be same i.e. 1300 UTC. I will
> send a reminder ahead of the session. Meanwhile, please see the original
> announcement below for other details.
>
> Thanks, and apologies for this last minute change.
>
> regards
> Runa
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Runa Bhattacharjee <
> rbhattacharjee(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> [x-posted announcement]
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Wikimedia Foundation’s Language team would like to invite you for an
>> online office hour session scheduled for Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at
>> 13:00 UTC. This will be an open session to talk about our work, and in
>> particular the changes to interlanguage links, which were recently
>> rolled-out on the English Wikipedia.
>>
>> The new option shows a list of up to 9 languages instead of a long list
>> that can have more than 200 items, and a panel with all the links that can
>> be looked up in any language using a search box. The purpose of this
>> feature is to make articles in all languages easier to find. We recently
>> published a blog post about this feature and the thoughts behind the
>> development:
>>
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.wiki….
>>
>> This session is going to be an online discussion over Google
>> Hangouts/Youtube with a simultaneous IRC conversation. Due to the
>> limitation of Google Hangouts, only a limited number of participation slots
>> are available. Hence, do please let us know in advance if you would like to
>> join in the Hangout. The IRC channel will be open for interactions during
>> the session.
>>
>> Please read below for the event details, including local time, youtube
>> session links and do let us know if you have any questions.
>>
>> Thank you
>> Runa
>>
>> == Details ==
>>
>> # Event: Wikimedia Foundation Language office hour session
>>
>> # When: March 21st, 2018 (Wednesday) at 13:00 UTC (check local time
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.timean…)
>>
>> # Where: and on IRC #wikimedia-office (Freenode) and
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtu…
>>
>>
>> # Agenda:
>> Discussion about Compact Language Links, and Q & A.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Engineering Manager, Language (Contributors)
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Engineering Manager, Language (Contributors)
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mediawiki-i18n mailing list
> Mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 14:39:54 +0100
From: MarcoAurelio <strigiwm(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks
Message-ID:
<CA+DRDAZbzSuHrNax2ihw4YjCcVdAruiqV2Jiky=zhF2kuMHZ6Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that is,
indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no users
interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock the
project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.
2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>:
> Hoi,
> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wiki…> on
>> Meta.
>>
>>
>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for about
>> ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on the
>> project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it is
>> better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them to
>> Incubator.
>>
>>
>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>
>>
>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>> other opinions about this.
>>
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
>> Sent from Outlook <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fw…>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 15:33:51 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] Proposal to close Malagasy Wikibooks
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxUsbaw-pTtK=_xH8qOoqjom5wjXunRNNTvgwJgDCQ8-cA(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hoi,
Having a project locked is different from having it moved to Incubator.. I
do not object to the project being locked.
Thanks,
Gerard
On 21 March 2018 at 14:39, MarcoAurelio <strigiwm(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Issue is that we're serving a project for just 15 pages. I'd argue that
> is, indeed, absence of content since the wiki creation. Combined with no
> users interested in the project, etc., the best we can do, IMHO, is to lock
> the project and return it back to Incubator. Respectfully submitted, MA.
>
> 2018-03-20 7:38 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> As there is nothing new, no change in the maintenance needed for this
>> particular project I see his point but I do not see the need.
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>>
>> On 19 March 2018 at 23:54, Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Please see Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Malagasy Wikibooks
>>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wiki…> on
>>> Meta.
>>>
>>>
>>> The general argument here is that this project has been dormant for
>>> about ten years, and should be closed. There is not a vandalism problem on
>>> the project, and indeed I argued that LangCom's current position is that it
>>> is better to leave dormant projects alone than to close them and move them
>>> to Incubator.
>>>
>>>
>>> User:MarcoAurelio, a steward who has posted here occasionally, argues
>>> that it's one more dormant project for stewards and global sysops to watch,
>>> and that in his view, it would be better to close this project. Two people
>>> in the community have responded: one user who really the only material
>>> contributor in the last ten years, along with an active sysop from Malagasy
>>> Wikipedia. Both effectively take the position that they're OK either way.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would personally argue against closing, because I don't see this as
>>> being a special case, and I'm concerned that it would open the doors to
>>> many more requests to close small projects. But I'd like to hear some
>>> other opinions about this.
>>>
>>>
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Outlook <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fw…>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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End of Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 15
***************************************
Hi,
In case you planned to come to this session, this was delayed to next week.
The "unavoidable reason" is that I am not feeling well :)
I do hope to see you there!
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Runa Bhattacharjee <rbhattacharjee(a)wikimedia.org>
Date: 2018-03-20 14:09 GMT+02:00
Subject: [Mediawiki-i18n] [x-post] Wikimedia Language team online meeting
on March 28 instead of March 21 [was Re: [x-post] Wikimedia Language team
office hour and online meeting on March 21, 2018 (Wednesday) at 1300 UTC]
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, Wikimedia
developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, Wikimedia & GLAM
collaboration [Public] <glam(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, MediaWiki
internationalisation <mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Hello,
Due to unavoidable reasons, we have had to move this online session to next
week, on 28th March 2018. The time will be same i.e. 1300 UTC. I will send
a reminder ahead of the session. Meanwhile, please see the original
announcement below for other details.
Thanks, and apologies for this last minute change.
regards
Runa
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Runa Bhattacharjee <
rbhattacharjee(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> [x-posted announcement]
>
> Hello,
>
> Wikimedia Foundation’s Language team would like to invite you for an
> online office hour session scheduled for Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at
> 13:00 UTC. This will be an open session to talk about our work, and in
> particular the changes to interlanguage links, which were recently
> rolled-out on the English Wikipedia.
>
> The new option shows a list of up to 9 languages instead of a long list
> that can have more than 200 items, and a panel with all the links that can
> be looked up in any language using a search box. The purpose of this
> feature is to make articles in all languages easier to find. We recently
> published a blog post about this feature and the thoughts behind the
> development:
>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/03/08/compact-language-links-launch.
>
> This session is going to be an online discussion over Google
> Hangouts/Youtube with a simultaneous IRC conversation. Due to the
> limitation of Google Hangouts, only a limited number of participation slots
> are available. Hence, do please let us know in advance if you would like to
> join in the Hangout. The IRC channel will be open for interactions during
> the session.
>
> Please read below for the event details, including local time, youtube
> session links and do let us know if you have any questions.
>
> Thank you
> Runa
>
> == Details ==
>
> # Event: Wikimedia Foundation Language office hour session
>
> # When: March 21st, 2018 (Wednesday) at 13:00 UTC (check local time
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20180321T1300)
>
> # Where: and on IRC #wikimedia-office (Freenode) and
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmZcL6zVcTA
>
>
> # Agenda:
> Discussion about Compact Language Links, and Q & A.
>
>
> --
> Engineering Manager, Language (Contributors)
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
--
Engineering Manager, Language (Contributors)
Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________
Mediawiki-i18n mailing list
Mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-i18n
I think that's a good idea, Amir.
I must say, I'm not sure what to tell people working on second-and-subsequent projects about translating, other than (a) translate any remaining messages (because we've added some) or obsolete translations in "most-used" (because we've added some), (b) if your project has specific extensions, work on those, and (c) otherwise just keep plugging away at "core". So if any of these groups are the "next" best to work on, I'd like to know that.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
________________________________
From: Langcom <langcom-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org> on behalf of langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org <langcom-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 1:27 PM
To: langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 11
Send Langcom mailing list submissions to
langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Langcom digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier (Amir E. Aharoni)
2. Re: a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
(Gerard Meijssen)
3. Re: a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
(Amir E. Aharoni)
4. Two more miscellaneous items (Steven White)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:26:04 +0200
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
<CACtNa8vYeyvwnXcd3CkU4AvOTEjVRmqQL8skFg8crH46-8-gmg(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi,
The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…
Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of translatable
messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups, so that the
rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and make them
work more slowly or give up.
Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
discussion ;)
In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wo…
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:31:25 +0100
From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
<CAO53wxXNmb7Ty=Ffu6d4nnC7R0qDq_VV6dy-WhsAynf9r_E20Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hoi,
We currently want the "most used" messages to be localised. They are the
most visible messages but that does not mean that they are the most
important for understanding a user interface. When your work means that
those messages that ordinary readers and editors do not see or need are in
separate groups from the ones they do need, we have a situation where I
find that we no longer need the localisation of all messages and have a
potential replacement for the "most used" messages..
Thanks,
GerardM
On 19 March 2018 at 15:26, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
> interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
>
> In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…
>
> Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of
> translatable messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups,
> so that the rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and
> make them work more slowly or give up.
>
> Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
> several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
> discussion ;)
>
> In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
> implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
> the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wo…
> “We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 16:35:55 +0200
From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee
<langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Langcom] a proposal to make MediaWiki translation easier
Message-ID:
<CACtNa8vO1kQ_ycNStLMsWheOWnr6RTeOiyvnXV4oa2HDCX-Q-Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks for bringing this up. The composition of the "most used messages"
group is indeed an issue, but it's distinct. Very briefly, It's good that
it's data-driven, but it's a bit *too* data-driven, and it needs some
adjustment.
I have a plan to improve the "most used" group as well. This plan is mostly
in my head at the moment, but I'll document it in writing soon, hopefully
in the next few days.
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wo…
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
2018-03-19 16:31 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>:
> Hoi,
> We currently want the "most used" messages to be localised. They are the
> most visible messages but that does not mean that they are the most
> important for understanding a user interface. When your work means that
> those messages that ordinary readers and editors do not see or need are in
> separate groups from the ones they do need, we have a situation where I
> find that we no longer need the localisation of all messages and have a
> potential replacement for the "most used" messages..
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2018 at 15:26, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
>> interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
>>
>> In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fphabricat…
>>
>> Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of
>> translatable messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups,
>> so that the rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and
>> make them work more slowly or give up.
>>
>> Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
>> several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
>> discussion ;)
>>
>> In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
>> implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
>> the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
>>
>> --
>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faharoni.wo…
>> “We're living in pieces,
>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Langcom mailing list
>> Langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Langcom mailing list
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> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wik…
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:27:02 +0000
From: Steven White <Koala19890(a)hotmail.com>
To: "langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org" <langcom(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Langcom] Two more miscellaneous items
Message-ID:
<BLUPR12MB06914E8C53FC0EDB650D49AC9ED40(a)BLUPR12MB0691.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
1. Wiktionary Sri Lankan Creole Malay<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wiki…> (langcode sci): Mostly an oral language; enwiki article describes attempts to write the language as "rare". Proposer never followed up, but was still active on enwiki as of two months ago. However, I have received no response on my inquiry to the proposer, so I am closing as "stale". Note: this is the final open non-Wikipedia request from 2011 or earlier.
2. Someone working on Wiktionary Kurdish (Sorani)<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wiki…> (request open since 2012) asked me if there was a problem with this request, since last month we marked the Wikinews request in that language eligible. I replied that there was not, and that I was simply working through the backlog in chronological order. But since there are people working on this test now, I'm going ahead and marking it as eligible.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fw…>
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Subject: Digest Footer
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------------------------------
End of Langcom Digest, Vol 54, Issue 11
***************************************
1. Wiktionary Sri Lankan Creole Malay<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Sri_L…> (langcode sci): Mostly an oral language; enwiki article describes attempts to write the language as "rare". Proposer never followed up, but was still active on enwiki as of two months ago. However, I have received no response on my inquiry to the proposer, so I am closing as "stale". Note: this is the final open non-Wikipedia request from 2011 or earlier.
2. Someone working on Wiktionary Kurdish (Sorani)<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wiktionary_Soran…> (request open since 2012) asked me if there was a problem with this request, since last month we marked the Wikinews request in that language eligible. I replied that there was not, and that I was simply working through the backlog in chronological order. But since there are people working on this test now, I'm going ahead and marking it as eligible.
Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
Hi,
The topic of the heavy burden of having to translate MediaWiki user
interface at translatewiki was discussed several times.
In an attempt to address this problem somewhat, I wrote these proposals:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T190047https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167762
Briefly, the suggestion is to split the extremely long list of translatable
messages in MediaWiki core and extensions into several groups, so that the
rarer and more technical messages won't confuse translators and make them
work more slowly or give up.
Actually, I already mentioned T167762, the proposal to split core into
several groups on this mailing list once, and it didn't generate a lot of
discussion ;)
In any case, if there are no significant objections, I plan to start
implementing this some time soon, and perhaps complete it by the time of
the Barcelona Hackathon in May.
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
Hi Language committee,
I think that all of you may be interested in this. It's an open online
video chat. If you have an hour on March 21, it would be nice if you could
join to talk about scaling our language diversity further.
Thanks!
--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Runa Bhattacharjee <rbhattacharjee(a)wikimedia.org>
Date: 2018-03-15 7:47 GMT+02:00
Subject: [Mediawiki-i18n] [x-post] Wikimedia Language team office hour and
online meeting on March 21, 2018 (Wednesday) at 1300 UTC
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, Wikimedia
developers <wikitech-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, Wikimedia & GLAM
collaboration [Public] <glam(a)lists.wikimedia.org>, MediaWiki
internationalisation <mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
[x-posted announcement]
Hello,
Wikimedia Foundation’s Language team would like to invite you for an online
office hour session scheduled for Wednesday, March 21st, 2018 at 13:00 UTC.
This will be an open session to talk about our work, and in particular the
changes to interlanguage links, which were recently rolled-out on the
English Wikipedia.
The new option shows a list of up to 9 languages instead of a long list
that can have more than 200 items, and a panel with all the links that can
be looked up in any language using a search box. The purpose of this
feature is to make articles in all languages easier to find. We recently
published a blog post about this feature and the thoughts behind the
development:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/03/08/compact-language-links-launch.
This session is going to be an online discussion over Google
Hangouts/Youtube with a simultaneous IRC conversation. Due to the
limitation of Google Hangouts, only a limited number of participation slots
are available. Hence, do please let us know in advance if you would like to
join in the Hangout. The IRC channel will be open for interactions during
the session.
Please read below for the event details, including local time, youtube
session links and do let us know if you have any questions.
Thank you
Runa
== Details ==
# Event: Wikimedia Foundation Language office hour session
# When: March 21st, 2018 (Wednesday) at 13:00 UTC (check local time
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20180321T1300)
# Where: and on IRC #wikimedia-office (Freenode) and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmZcL6zVcTA
# Agenda:
Discussion about Compact Language Links, and Q & A.
--
Engineering Manager, Language (Contributors)
Wikimedia Foundation
_______________________________________________
Mediawiki-i18n mailing list
Mediawiki-i18n(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-i18n