For your information, Wikipedia Kumyk is not ready yet. I wrote the community at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Kumyk to give them some further guidance. Briefly, (a) they only have two months of activity so far, not three, (b) they have not translated the interface at all yet, and (c) my random check on the test showed ten stubs out of ten articles tested. So I think they are on the right track, but they still have quite a bit to do before they are ready.
Respectfully,
Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
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1. I have asked the Gorontalo test community if it has access to any language experts (professors or linguists) for language verification. I suggested to them that ideally such an expert would be someone who has had no substantial involvement with the test so far. However, as a backup, I suggested to them that someone who has been involved, but who has really unambiguous credentials, might be good enough. (My own personal opinion is that it has to be; if projects are going to remain frozen in Incubator because nobody can find a language expert, then we might as well tell people in such test communities not to bother. And I don't think we want to do that.) As an aside, the Ingush Wikipedia test has been waiting for language verification for months; I intend to ask them along the same lines if they have access to any experts.
2. I think LangCom needs to decide what it considers to be an acceptable conlang and what it doesn't. The LFN test project team has been working hard and seriously on this project for months. The language is a serious attempt at an auxiliary language, and isn't a construction for a fictional world like Klingon or the Tolkien languages, so I don't think there is a concern that LFN Wikipedia would be considered a frivolous project. And LFN has more speakers than a couple of other conlangs that have Wikipedias already (albeit grandfathered ones). Bottom line: as proposals on conlang projects go, this is going to be about as good as it gets. If nevertheless you decide not to approve this project, then I think you really need to decide on some criteria, or decide that you are not going to accept any new conlangs at all.
Respectfully,
Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
This request is also generating a lot of heat, and not necessarily a lot of light.
For what it's worth, here's how I evaluate the arguments that have been made here:
* Members of the be-tarask community strongly oppose (as you might expect)
* Among replies (at Meta and on bewiki) from the bewiki community, there seem to be none to really favor the proposal as written. Either they oppose closure, or else they favor closure because they think the Taraskievica orthography should be suppressed.
* The proposer has a grand total of 1 (one) edit on be-tarask, and 0 (no) edits on bewiki. He is mostly flitting around Meta and Incubator inserting opinions about projects he thinks should and should not continue to exist.
As far as I can tell, the bewiki and be-tarask communities seem to coexist side-by-side well enough. So in the short term, I'd encourage you to reject this proposal. If you think in the long run that these wikis should be merged, then tackle that later. And I think the Nahuatl situation needs attention more immediately than this does.
Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
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The issues concerning Marrovi personally are beyond the remit of LangCom, I think. It may, though, be within your remit to craft a policy concerning what constitutes "disruption due to insufficient language skills" (or something like that) for stewards, global sysops and local sysops to use to combat any such cases in the future.
Separately:
* If LangCom feels that seven discussion days have passed with a consensus not to close Nahuatl Wikipedia, would someone please do the honors on Meta?
* I really need one of you to have a look at the Request for Closure on be-tarask, or at least for LangCom to start discussing this. The proposer is mostly making trouble (IMHO), but the tone of the discussion is very negative, and I'd really like to shut it down.
Steven White
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There is no question that User:Marrovi is difficult. The fact that the proposal comes from him makes it hard to take seriously in many respects. And in any event, unless the nahwiki project is really not in valid Nahuatl (of some type or another), I don't see any policy grounds on which you can justify closing this project.
That having been said, I think you really need to take the comments by Marcos Williamson (by e-mail) and User:Maunus (on-wiki) to heart. It's really too bad that Marrovi's presence muddles the picture so much, because there are apparently some serious issues here. I am not sure, personally, exactly what to do about it. In theory, I try to encourage the individual Nahuatl test projects at Incubator, but Marrovi is also very active there, and I do not have the language skills to know if he's writing garbage (and can be blocked) or not.
As to the current nah Wikipedia, in principle I like the suggestion by Maunus (that Michael endorsed). But I don't see how that generally fits WMF's rules ("anyone can edit"). I've been wracking my brain over next steps forward, and all I can really see is this:
* Reject and close this current proposal.
* Create a more general RfC page to discuss whether the rules for nahwiki should (or even can) be changed to give more weight to the contributions of true, fluent Nahuatl speakers. I think this should be on Meta, because if it is actually on nahwiki, much will be in Nahuatl, and most of us can't speak it.
* When you do this, it would be best if someone had at least a rough proposal in mind. And I suspect it needs to include some content evaluation by experts in Nahuatl who are currently uninvolved in the dispute.
* Probably someone fairly fluent in Spanish—that's the "major" language that most interested parties speak–needs to draft that proposal and then moderate.
* Marrovi needs to be strictly limited in his contributions so that he does not continue to write "walls" of text. If you set such limitations, I can enforce them as a sysop.
* See if Wikimedia Mexico can recruit more Nahuatl-speaking contributors.
Respectfully,
Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
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Dear LangCom members: The following two projects are ready for your consideration for approval:
* Gorontalo (Hulontalo) Wikipedia (Wp/gor)
* Lingua Franca Nova (Elefen) Wikipedia (Wp/lfn)
I would also like to remind you that Ingush Wikipedia (Wp/inh) is still awaiting language verification.
Respectfully,
Steven White (User:StevenJ81)
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook>
Hello,
We have received a request for closure of the Nahuatl Wikipedia:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_N…
Interestingly, the user who is requesting it has been blocked from it in
2016, as well from other three Wikipedias.
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*"Jülüjain wane mmakat ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua
junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain."*
Maor Malul
Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 | www.wikimedia.org.ve
Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il
Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
Phone: +972-52-4869915
Twitter: @maor_x
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