Hoi,
We are now at the stage where we have a policy. We are not interested in
talking the proposal to death. We are first going to see how it functions.
When we find that it does not work, we will tweak things carefully. The lack
of having message files for all languages is one of the major shortcomings
in the current localisation procedures.
You may think of it as a technicality or not fair. The point is that the
developers proved to be unwilling to remedy things in the past (for instance
for Marathi). The only consequence can be that new projects have to
have message
files from the start. It is not fair to start new languages that are
incomplete; it is not fair to require the localisation to be done again when
a new project is requested in the same language.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 3/5/07, Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not complaining about be.wp, I know that is a difficult situation
and I do not expect that it can be resolved soon.
It doesn't appear that anybody told any of these people that they are
required to have a message file.
These requests are simply sitting there, nobody has actually told
these people "We do not see ____, when you get that we will proceed
further with considerations for your Wiki."
These people are very dedicated, I am sure if anyone had actually told
them what exactly it is that they need to do to move forward, they
would do it right away. I am sure the messages file would be
translated into Kabyle, for example, in less than a week, if anyone
had ever actually informed those people that it is needed.
- Wls - if there is "no reasonable support", the number of speakers is
entirely irrelevant, of course the project is not viable since it has
0 articles in the incubator and nobody currently asking for its
creation (there was only one person who did).
- Twd - this case needs to be probed further to see how much Twents
people would support it as a Wiki separate from nds-nl. There are
already over two hundred articles in it, but the majority are at
nds-nl.wp. User:Tubantia indicated preliminary support of such a
request some time ago, so it needs to be re-investigated to see if
this is a viable project or not, and whether the needs of
Twents-speakers are currently being surved by our existing project
(nds-nl)
- Stq - this is obviously a viable project. There is support of native
speakers, many many pages and very active on the incubator. So you
want a message file. Why didn't you tell the people working on this
project? I am sure they would prepare it in several days.
- Pfl - this project appears to still be in the early stages of
incubator development. At this point in time, I don't expect it to be
approved by anyone.
- Lld - same as pfl, except I do not expect its development soon.
Someone needs to investigate how well existing users are served by
rm.wp and fur.wp.
- Kok - although this is a major language of India with millions of
speakers, it is a problem that there are currently no articles. I'm
sure Frederick Noronha could remedy this, though; in the meantime, I
agree and do not think it would be reasonable to approve the project.
- Kab - same as stq.
Others you failed to mention:
- Bat-ltg/lv-ltg - same situation as stq.
- Crh - same situation as stq.
- Dsb - same situation as stq.
It seems that if your rules mean that these Wikis are not able to be
created now, it is not necessarily the case that there is no
opposition (although it may be), the case currently is that _nobody
knows about the rules_. When you have a new policy with as much impact
as this one, it is imperative that it be solicited to all the persons
and communities to whom it is relevant, and their opinion awaited.
This is a Wiki, I am sure that even people who support the policy will
have suggestions for its improvement, but so far very few have shown
up because you have not advertised it much.
Mark
On 05/03/07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Williamson schreef:
> Hello,
>
> Perhaps some of you are aware of the formation of the Langcom.
>
> Also, you may be aware of the recent reform of the language proposal
process.
However, what you may not be aware of is that the Language Committee
is taking a while to actually get underway and to the point where they
can excersise control over the creation of new Wikis.
Despite that, it seems that they are already looked to as an authority
in this area, while they do not act as such.
There are several new Wikipedia requests which were uncontroversial
when first posed. Many of dozens of voices of support, and have
thriving tests on the Incubator.
However, their requests were deleted by PathosChild who said that they
would have to remake them, which they have. So far, no proposals for
Wikipedias in new languages have been _approved_ under the new
proposal process, despite its having been around for several months
now. They just sit there. And sit there. And sit there some more.
I think it's about time something happened. I think it's about time we
welcomed these people -- the Kabyles, the Latgalians, the Lower
Sorbians, the Crimeans, and all the others -- into our Wikipedia
family. They have waited long enough. Why can't somebody do something?
Why do they have to wait for the langcom to get underway? For all we
know, that could take years.
Mark
Hoi,
The language committee has proposed things. It does not have the power
to force issues. We are now at the stage where we have published our
guidelines. We have given warning that we do adopt these guidelines as a
rule if there was no indication of opposition to this. This has not
happened. From our POV the rules as we published them apply.
All projects for a new language that do not have a work in progress in
the Incubator are denied. Starting in the Incubator is mandatory.
Working on the localisation is a strong factor in favour for granting a
new language a project.
We have some questions outstanding with the board; particularly about
the Belarus Wikipedia. In our opinion only the official Belarus
Wikipedia has the right to the be.wikipedia label. We have asked at
least a month ago for a resolution of this issue from the board. We do
not want to take up new things that much if open things do not get
resolved. It is a waste of our time otherwise.
We have already denied one proposal for an artificial languages that has
no wide support. That one was obvious.
*The wls project has no reasonable amount of support at the moment,
there are only 29,768 people speaking it .. Is this a reasonable
proposal ?
*The twd project has no reasonable amount of
support at the moment,
there is not even an estimation how many people are speaking it .. Is
this a reasonable proposal ?
*The stq project does not have a message file.. so we cannot assess the
localisation of the messages
*The pfl project does not have a message file.. so we cannot assess the
localisation of the messages. There are insufficient articles of a
sufficient length.
*The lld project does not have a message file.. so we cannot assess the
localisation of the messages. There are insufficient articles of a
sufficient length.
*The kok project does not have a message file.. so we cannot assess the
localisation of the messages. There are no articles
*The kab project does not have a message file.. so we cannot assess the
localisation of the messages.
So basically from our point of view, it seems that the message files are
not there. They are required.
Thanks,
GerardM
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