Wiktionary-l

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688 discussions

Re: [Wiktionary-l] [Wikitech-l] The lang tag in <HTML> ain't identical to $wgContLanguageCode
by Gerard Meijssen 12 May '06

12 May '06

Brion Vibber wrote: > Shinjiman wrote: > >> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="XXX" lang="XXX"> >> >> The lang (and xml:lang) attribute defined at the HTML tag in some language is >> not correct and it's supposed to not making this value identical to >> $wgContLanguageCode. >> > > Incorrect; it *is* supposed to be the value of $wgContLanguageCode, as by > definition $wgContLanguageCode is the RFC 3066 language code for the language of > the wiki's content. > > A reasonable case might be made that when variant display conversion is engaged, > the lang attribute should be overridden. > > >> For example there's no such language tag called "simple", >> > > Indeed there's not; that would be "en". > > Note that $wgContLanguageCode is not the same as the *domain name* or *interwiki > identifier*. These are separate issues. > > >> according to ISO639, RFC1766, RFC3066 (R1,R2). Hence for my previous patch >> that submitted to Bug:5790. The main purpose of the patch is adding a new >> Language Tag Mapping against the user interface language which using the >> incorrect language tag. >> > > That would be stupid and useless. Instead, use the correct code to begin with. > > -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) Hoi, The case for the simple wikipedia is indeed obvious. More problematic is when you want to link a wikipedia that uses a code that will never be accepted as a language code because it is considered a language family. Or a code that is used for another language. Or a language where the code is specific while the wikipedia uses it to indicate a larger language "continuum". Another issue is that language codes are retired; this leads to a different interpretation of the meaning of the ku, fa and several others (this is part of ISO-639-3) Having meaningful links between the Wikimedia codes for interwikil inks and language codes is not trivial. For WiktionaryZ we are going to standardise on ISO-639-3 and have CLEAR codes that identify languages that are not recognised at present. One consequence is, that the Babel templates will be the ISO-639-3 codes as well. RFC 3066 indicates to be reserving tags for subsequent revisions of the ISO-639 code. ISO-639-3 clearly states that the codes will not be recycled. It also says that this principle will be maintained for any future revisions of the code. It is therefore safe to use ISO-639-3. Thanks, GerardM

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The need for identifying languages properly for lexicological use
by GerardM 10 May '06

10 May '06

Hoi, When there is a vote for "yet another" wikipedia, it is necessary to have a code that identifies the new database. As Wikipedias are written in a language, we use a code that identifies that language. Typically people say we use the ISO-639 codes for that. This would imply that a code used has a relation to the language that is being used and, it should also imply that a wikipedia is indeed in a particular language as recognised by the code. The way the Wikipedia are is a matter of history and the continued abuse of codes makes for often heated political discussions about languages, it only make things more complicated.When you are interested in reading more details on this subject, you can read what I wrote on my blog. http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2006/05/languagecodes-on-wikimedia-foun… In many projects we use "Babel" templates to indicate the language proficiency of people. Particularly in Wiktionary and in WiktionaryZ, we have to be precise when we indicate a language. It means that when we are to indicate that a word is in a specific language, it has to be THAT language and not another language. I propose for WiktionaryZ and for the Babel proficiency to exclusively use the ISO-639-3 codes. When there are not enough codes in ISO-639-3 we will have to use codes that are clearly not ISO-639-3. These codes may indicate orthographies, dialects and different scripts and even languages that have not yet been considered to be a language. The use of well defined codes will allow us to have our data used reliably and to define our content better. This will enable people to use our data and make WiktionaryZ a success Where possible we will try to connect the codes used by Wikipedia to ISO-639-3 codes. This will not be possible for several languages like Albanian; the als code has been squatted by what ISO-639 considers a language family. Thanks, GerardM

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Downloading Contents from wikis project
by Matsobane 09 May '06

09 May '06

Greetings I installed Mediawiki which i think is working fine on the web server and i have been trying to download contents from very interesting wiki's project such as wikibooks;wikiqoute,wikicommons,wiktionery and other without success. Could you guys help on the easiest way to dowmload or find the contents. I am working for a government project in SOUTH AFRICA that specialise in opensource and our targets are school from primary to secondary levels so i need to contents that we could install in their labs because they do not have internet. I hope i could get helped Regards Matsobane Moloto icommunity(SA) Tel:+27 15 4834878 cell:0731634000

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Downloading Contents from wikis project
by Matsobane Moloto 09 May '06

09 May '06

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RfC: A Free Content and Expression Definition
by Erik Moeller 01 May '06

01 May '06

Dear Wikimedia community, I am posting this to multiple lists, as I believe it is relevant to each of them (more on that below). For years, we have been using the term "free content" to refer to our projects. However, what exactly is free content? Does it include the right to make commercial use? Does it allow derivative works? A year ago, Anthere, one of our elected trustees, noted that the English Wikipedia article [[free content]] is confused and contains no clear definition. This is no surprise, as the term has evolved purely through its usage. One year on, the article doesn't look much better and still doesn't contain a single reference. It is clear that we need a definition. With the help of feedback from the likes of Richard Stallman and Lawrence Lessig, and an increasing number of collaborators, I have drafted up a first version of such a definition, called the "Free Content and Expression Definition": http://freecontentdefinition.org/Definition You can also use the URLs <http://freedomdefinition.org/> or <http://freedomdefined.org/>. Please use the URL http://freecontentdefinition.org/static/ (with trailing slash) when submitting this link to high traffic sites. Licenses covered by this definition must grant the following freedoms: * the freedom to study the work and to apply knowledge acquired from it * the freedom to redistribute copies, in whole or in part, of the information or expression * the freedom to make improvements or other changes, and to release modified copies The essence of these freedoms is not negotiable. However, in order to best express, interpret and elaborate on these freedoms, I would like to announce an open editing phase to push this Definition to a 1.0 version. There is a stable, protected version of the definition and an unstable, openly editable one. The openly editable one, which may already differ significantly from the one above by the time you read this, can be found at: http://freecontentdefinition.org/Definition/Unstable You can suggest changes on the talk page, or be bold and make them directly. The change process will be consensus-based. In order to decide when a consensus has been reached on a change, I have appointed three moderators besides myself: * Benjamin Mako Hill. Mako is a co-initiator of the definition and a prolific figure in the free software community. To quote Wikipedia, he "is a Debian hacker and author of the Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 Bible (...). He currently works in the electronic publishing group of the MIT Media Lab, and is on the boards of Software in the Public Interest, Software Freedom International (the organization that organizes Software Freedom Day) and the Ubuntu Foundation." * Angela Beesley. You may be familiar with her. ;-) She's the other of the two elected trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation, and also the Vice President of Community Relations at Wikia, Inc. * Mia Garlick. General Counsel at Creative Commons, and an expert on IP law. Creative Commons is, of course, the project which offers many easy-to-use licenses to authors and artists, some of which are free content licenses and some of which are not. None of them is acting here in an official capacity related to their affiliations. Please treat their comments as personal opinion unless otherwise noted. See <http://freecontentdefinition.org/Authoring_process> for details on the authoring process and <http://freecontentdefinition.org/Moderators> for more about moderation. The Creative Commons project has welcomed the effort to clearly classify existing groups of licenses, and will work to supplement this definition with one which covers a larger class of licenses and works. In addition to changes to the definition itself, we invite you to submit logos that can be attached to works or licenses which are free under this definition: http://freecontentdefinition.org/Logo_contest Why is this relevant to the projects I am alerting about it? Wikipedia Has the most significant problems distinguishing between free and non-free materials simply because of the sheer amount of uploads and user-submitted content. The English Wikipedia, for instance, allows limited "fair use" in addition to free content uploads, but prohibits licenses which forbid commercial use. This definition allows us to state clearly: "An uploaded work must either be free content, or fair use. If it is fair use, strong restrictions apply, and your upload may be deleted or replaced at any time." The definition also contains remarks about interoperability with other licenses. This is a problem that concerns us at the moment when it comes to importing texts under licenses which are philosophically similar, but legally incompatible with the GFDL. If the definition gets widely adopted, we can push for changes to licenses to make them more compatible with each other. Wikimedia Commons Commons was launched as a free content repository. We have effectively followed the terms of the definition in the licenses we allow and prohibit for uploaded files; however, the discussions about whether to allow, for example, pictures which cannot be used commercially keep coming up. Clearly labeling the repository as a free content archive under this definition will help to avoid that. Wikinews I've seen some uploaded photo galleries that were under licenses which forbid derivative works. If we limit Wikimedia projects to free content, that would explicitly not be allowed. This is an example of "non-free content creep" that may be observed on other projects as well. Wiktionary The definition contains recommendations about license complexity. Wiktionary as a resource for terminological and lexicological data does not benefit from the highly complex terms of the GFDL, which require, for example, reprinting the entire license text when copying a single page. Wikimedia The definition makes it easy to resolve the question of which licenses to allow or disallow across projects. For example, a Wikimedia-wide policy could be that: "All content in all projects must be free content as per the Free Content Definition 1.0, with the exception of works which are used under exemptions granted by national copyright laws, such as 'fair use' in the United States. These exemptions are defined on a per-project and per-language basis." Outside Wikimedia, the definition will make it easier for us to communicate. For instance, many people use the very vague terms "open access" or "open content", or simply talk about "a Creative Commons license" when describing licensing of their work. The term "free content" has an existing usage in the sense described herein. With the additional support of this definition, it is a powerful and simple way to determine whether a work is usable in the context of the Wikimedia projects. One note on the choice of name. Not all people will be happy to label their works "content", as it is also a term that is heavily used in commerce. This is why Mako and I have compromised on the name "Free Content and Expression Definition" for the definition itself. We are suggesting "Free Expression" as an alternative term that may lend itself particularly to usage in the context of artistic works. However, we remain open on discussing the issue of naming, and invite your feedback in this regard. All that being said, I hope that you will join the open editing phase or the logo contest. Even if there will be very little feedback, I hope we will be able to release a 1.0 version of this definition fairly soon. You will find a general announcement that you can copy and paste to other places at: http://freecontentdefinition.org/Announcement Please leave a quick note in the log when distributing it. As a final note, if you create an account on the wiki, I would appreciate it if you could use your real name as your user name. Thanks for your time, Erik

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Editability of WiktionaryZ
by GerardM 30 Apr '06

30 Apr '06

Hoi, After a long time, I am exceedingly pleased that we have our first editability on the WiktionaryZ project. As you may know, WiktionaryZ is currently in a pre alpha stage. It is not feature complete yet but we are improving things step by step. Editing is now open to a limited group of people that will slowly but surely grow. Requirements are that you have a user on WiktionaryZ.org and inform about your babel information. At this moment we still have a limited number of languages but this will be increased as soon as possible, for instance we really want to have languages like Chinese, Arabic, Russian and Swahili... Thanks, GerardM

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WiktionaryZ update
by GerardM 16 Mar '06

16 Mar '06

Hoi, At the moment we are preparing for the moment where WiktionaryZ becomes editable. Technically a lot of work is done and has been done on the Wikidata end to make this happen. For those people who are interested in it, a tarbal with the latest software and data is available at http://epov.org/wd-gemet.tgz It comes with the basic information you need to start writing your own scripts for when you want to import your own data. When WZ becomes editable we will be in a pre-alpha stage. We are looking for people who are willing to help us test and build the environment. We will start with a truly limited group of people and we will slowly increase its size. When you are interested, we want you to create a user and provide us with your Babel information .. only language info ! We are working on standardising the templates, Gangleri has done a lot of work to make sure that languages like Farsi are readable in the templates. We have started with the basic infrastructure to allow for Portals for each language. The idea is to have information about a language on the Portal in that language. At this moment we start the page by showing what the templates for that language look like. We invite everyone to check the text of the templates. It should be a good text in that language. The levels of proficiency are from 1 to 5 . We assume that there is no point in informing the world that you have no knowledge of each language. So we do not have a level 0. When people inform us that they are professionally using a language, it will be appreciated to be informed on the user page what the profession is. When the software allows for edits and additions, the first content that we are interested in is to have the swadesh list for all languages. This will be an interesting project because this has to be done with the concepts of WiktionaryZ in mind. The swadesh list as published is a list of expressions, this means that we should allow for all expressions and their DefinedMeaning for all languages.. The point of this exercise is that people will have to work together. Because of the multilingual nature of this project it will prove interesting to see how well we manage. Thanks, GerardM

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exicornt switch
by Gerard Meijssen 14 Mar '06

14 Mar '06

Hoi, On the en:Wiktionary there is a bozo who thinks it funny to create articles with titles like "exicornt switch". This is a non existing word. The guy insists to create this article and uses any means to get his way. I have been told that this guy is a user on the en.wikipedia as well. As the frustration of this guy is getting to a level where AOL is being blocked, I would like to know if we can cooperate and do something about this vandal. It is a daily annoyance. :( Thanks, GerardM

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Volunteers needed for the Wikimania Program Team
by Angela 23 Feb '06

23 Feb '06

This is a call for volunteers to join the Program Team for Wikimania 2006 <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006>, the second international Wikimedia conference, to be held in Boston this August. The Program Team are responsible for creating the program, inviting keynote speakers, reviewing proposals for presentations, workshops, and papers, organizing the speakers when they arrive at the conference, and related tasks. A call for papers <http://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Call_for_papers> was recently distributed, so we are looking for people willing to help review these papers as they arrive in Indico <http://cfp.wikimania.wikimedia.org/>. Please add yourself to <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006/Program_Team> if you can help. I am sending this to all project lists since I'm especially trying to find 3 more people for the theme of "Wikimedia projects and content". Angela. -- Angela Beesley

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fr.wiktionary: public domain dictionary uploaded (at last...)
by Christophe Millet 23 Feb '06

23 Feb '06

Hi all, I'm glad to anounce that we eventually uploaded all the 8th edition of the French Academy Dictionary (dated 1932-1935) in the French Wiktionary (yeah, we've been speaking about it for almost a year). It contained about 33000 articles, some of which were already in there, so now we have a painful job of merging / checking to do. It's cool to see more blue links suddently :-) Christophe / Kipmaster.

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