Wiktionary-l March 2009

wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org

12 participants
5 discussions

Divergent Wiktionary logos
by Cary Bass 27 Mar '09

27 Mar '09

Hi all, The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2] The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome. I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version: fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version) As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community. I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp. Cary [1] <http://en.wiktionary.org> [2] <http://fr.wiktionary.org> [3] <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo>

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] [Foundation-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos
by Brion Vibber 27 Mar '09

27 Mar '09

On 3/25/09 10:51 PM, Michael Snow wrote: > Cary Bass wrote: >> While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied >> with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, >> one logo has to be used across projects > My impression is that the current split is a natural result of the fact > that nobody has yet put forward a satisfactory solution. The "classic" > logo is not a logo at all, but has the inertia of long use. Just as background -- I created the current logo over the course of about 5 minutes as a placeholder, figuring it would be replaced with a more permanent logo within a few weeks. It's been about 6 years. :) -- brion

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] [Foundation-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos
by Cary Bass 25 Mar '09

25 Mar '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dominic wrote: > Gerard Meijssen wrote: > >>> When I read what is proposed, the impression is given that a >>> process will start with a compulsory outcome. I understand the >>> rationale for one shared logo and favicon. The problem is that >>> it is people outside of Wiktionary that want to improve the >>> Wiktionary "brand" and the last time it was very much these >>> outsiders that made the selection. >>> >> > > > Exactly. Despite the fact that fr.wikt and a few others eventually > adopted the logo, the logo debacle was not en.wikt's making. It > wasn't a refusal to accept the the outcome of the proposal, it was > a reluctance to be dictated to by people who weren't a part of the > community. I'm afraid this will be interpreted the same way, if > we're proposing to just slap a sitenotice on all the Wiktionaries > telling them to discuss a new logo. There needs to be community > impetus for the change, so that the meta discussion evolves out of > actual community desire for a new logo. We should start at places > like en.wikt's [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour]], fr.wikt's > [[Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]], and es.wikt's [[Wikcionario:Café]], not > foundation-l. I have to respectfully disagree that a proposal that will affect all these projects has to originate in thirty different places. Since there is no central Wiktionary community, the Meta project, and Foundation-l as well as Wiktionary-l (which was cross-posted) is the place to get the discussion going. While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not. The discussion has to get started, no matter where it is, and meta and the two mailing lists are, in fact, the appropriate place to start the discussion. I do expect (and have asked) that links to that discussion are made from those projects (and in the Central Notice as well) I would find it sad if the English Wiktionary were to choose not to involve itself in a process that will ultimately affect its appearance; however, I don't anticipate this will actually be the case. Cary -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJyqJryQg4JSymDYkRAu66AJ9r9a+40/NZGJbXYV0J0ETzcRDcqQCdFrtQ ljKyb5L0MwIDNM+M+oiCbEM= =SiCa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] [Foundation-l] Divergent Wiktionary logos
by Cary Bass 25 Mar '09

25 Mar '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nathan wrote: > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Cary Bass <cary(a)wikimedia.org> > wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> I'd like to propose the following page: >> >> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo/refresh> be >> opened for arguments and vote on it start in a weeks time. >> >> I'd also like considerable help in advertising it throughout the >> projects and managing the page, as well. >> >> Cary >> > > Goes to the question of who determines the logo to be used, doesn't > it? If the meta vote approves the new logo, but a vote on en.wikt > does not, which is binding? Can meta participants vote to change > any logo? > > Nathan Of course Meta participants can vote; Wiktionary isn't solely "owned" by the people who most actively use it. It's a Wikimedia project, first and foremost. I generally expect most people who use Meta to respectfully give weight to the Wiktionarians, however, and not just "vote" on impulse. Most of us do that. And to ensure that we have Wiktionarian participation, this is where "advertising" comes in. It should be promoted on the Village Pumps and mailing lists, as well as on IRC. I don't think there's much more we can do. If people don't pay attention to any of those, then I can't see how much interest they actually have in their community. (of course, one could also put it up in the Sitenotice). Cary -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJymFJyQg4JSymDYkRAsUhAKCMUeHVDmuArHKlBtVJGrKtHnqO0ACfSUqu 4TB55U5u0N1/Q9Zdh1+N/iw= =RkE4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Tech updates: code updates going live to Wikimedia sites
by Brion Vibber 25 Mar '09

25 Mar '09

After a few weeks of bug fixes, we've caught up with MediaWiki development code review and I'm pushing out an update to the live sites. This fixes a lot of little bugs, and hopefully doesn't cause introduce too many new ones. :) * Change logs: http://ur1.ca/2rah (r47458 to r48811) As usual in addition to lots of offline and individual testing among our staff and volunteer developers, we've done a shakedown on http://test.wikipedia.org/ -- and as usual we can fully expect a few more issues to have cropped up that weren't already found. Don't be alarmed if you do find a problem; just let us know at http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ or on the tech IRC channels (#wikimedia-tech on Freenode). We should be resuming our weekly update schedule soon -- I won't be doing a mega-crosspost like this every week! -- and will continue to improve our pre-update staging and shakedown testing to keep disruption to a minimum and awesome improvements to a maximum. I'd also like to announce that we've started a blog for Wikimedia tech activity & MediaWiki development, in part because I want to make sure community members can easily follow what we're working on and give feedback before we push things out: * http://techblog.wikimedia.org/ I'd very much like to make sure that we've got regular contacts among the various project communities who can help coordinate with us on features, bugs, and general thoughts which might affect some projects distinctly from others. -- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org) CTO, Wikimedia Foundation San Francisco

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Wiktionary-l March 2009