Hello, I'm interested in adding a new language go Wikipedia. I would like to know what is what I have to do. Thank you very much.
Emmanuel Maggiori
Which language? Singlish?
On 3/27/07, Emmanuel Maggiori emmanuelmaggiori@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, I'm interested in adding a new language go Wikipedia. I would like to know what is what I have to do. Thank you very much.
Emmanuel Maggiori _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
2007/3/27, J.L.W.S. The Special One hildanknight@gmail.com:
Which language? Singlish?
I think making jokes about someone's knowledge of English is below the normal level of conversation on this list. And anyway, the original poster seems to be from Argentina, which makes it quite unlikely that he would be proposing Singlish.
For Emmanuel: You can find the necessary information at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy. Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
Woah, woah, woah.
Now you are insulting speakers of Singlish!
JLWS merely said that, I believe, due to his/her ongoing quest for a Singlish Wikipedia which seems to have been all but ignored.
My suggestion to you JLWS: Create a Singlish Test-Wiki at the incubator (http://incubator.wikimedia.org/). I promise I will do all I can to help.
Mark
On 27/03/07, Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com wrote:
2007/3/27, J.L.W.S. The Special One hildanknight@gmail.com:
Which language? Singlish?
I think making jokes about someone's knowledge of English is below the normal level of conversation on this list. And anyway, the original poster seems to be from Argentina, which makes it quite unlikely that he would be proposing Singlish.
For Emmanuel: You can find the necessary information at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy. Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
-- Andre Engels, andreengels@gmail.com ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hola!
Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
This is a bit pessimistic :) The normative Byelorussian wikipedia just was created and substituted the old version, the latter was renamed into be-x-old.
Many other linguistic versions are growing in the incubator; most of them only miss a localized interface to become full-grown independent projects.
The one thing that many people miss in the new procedure is that it's not a popular acclamation as it used to be. The incubator is a place to grow and to show that a project really has a community and it's capable to grow.
Since the vast majority of "strong" linguistic entities (in terms of internet presence) have long received a wiki, the newcomers usually are slow in developing.
I can read basic spanish, so if english is a problem Emmanuel is welcome to write in spanish :) I won't be able to answer in spanish myself, though.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
Hi!
Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
This is a bit pessimistic :) The normative Byelorussian wikipedia just was created and substituted the old version, the latter was renamed into be-x-old.
When be-x-old will be available? And why nobody asked opinion of ex-BE:WP community regarding domain name?
Also, I think, will be good idea to notify about such swaps in future...
With best regards, Eugene.
Hoi!
As per not communicating the swap you are absolutely right and I excuse myself personally. I know it won't help much but as you can understand this is not "everyday business" and we have no standard procedure to manage such events. Yet I read Byelorussian and it should have been my own responsibility to reach you and inform you. I did not do it and I officially excuse myself for that.
Feel free to contact me personally at any time for any possible problem, you can write in Russian if it makes things easier. I will have to answer in English only if the answer has to be notified to LangCom, as I'm the only Russian speaker in LangCom and a Cyrillic answer would not be of any use to the other members.
Now to the answers: the domain is being setup by Brion these days, AFAIK there are a few minor technical problems, but that's all. It should be up very quickly.
Domain names are not "fabricated" on community demand; they follow an international ISO standard. The X part means it's a private code that has value for wmf only (it's a standard, too). Under the current rules the wiki should be simply shutdown, since it does not have an ISO code.
The Board decided to delegate an ad hoc Committee for this kind of decisions and IMHO that's a good warranty for everyone. In the meantime we decided not to have any particular descriptive code for the old Byelorussian edition, since it would have implied some kind of political recognition, which is NOT what wmf is about.
If in the future your linguistic flavor will obtain a valid ISO code we will be glad to adopt it just as we adopt any other internationally recognized code, but we are not willing to issue ANY code on our own. This is a final decision.
DISCLAIMER: this is my personal POV and NOT a collective statement from wmf LangCom.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Eugene Zelenko Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 4:34 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] New language
Hi!
Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
This is a bit pessimistic :) The normative Byelorussian wikipedia just was created and substituted the old version, the latter was renamed into be-x-old.
When be-x-old will be available? And why nobody asked opinion of ex-BE:WP community regarding domain name?
Also, I think, will be good idea to notify about such swaps in future...
With best regards, Eugene.
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hi!
Just for self-education... Are all Chinese language suffixes (zh-...) ISO-complaint?
Thank you, Eugene.
On 3/27/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Hoi!
As per not communicating the swap you are absolutely right and I excuse myself personally. I know it won't help much but as you can understand this is not "everyday business" and we have no standard procedure to manage such events. Yet I read Byelorussian and it should have been my own responsibility to reach you and inform you. I did not do it and I officially excuse myself for that.
Feel free to contact me personally at any time for any possible problem, you can write in Russian if it makes things easier. I will have to answer in English only if the answer has to be notified to LangCom, as I'm the only Russian speaker in LangCom and a Cyrillic answer would not be of any use to the other members.
Now to the answers: the domain is being setup by Brion these days, AFAIK there are a few minor technical problems, but that's all. It should be up very quickly.
Domain names are not "fabricated" on community demand; they follow an international ISO standard. The X part means it's a private code that has value for wmf only (it's a standard, too). Under the current rules the wiki should be simply shutdown, since it does not have an ISO code.
The Board decided to delegate an ad hoc Committee for this kind of decisions and IMHO that's a good warranty for everyone. In the meantime we decided not to have any particular descriptive code for the old Byelorussian edition, since it would have implied some kind of political recognition, which is NOT what wmf is about.
If in the future your linguistic flavor will obtain a valid ISO code we will be glad to adopt it just as we adopt any other internationally recognized code, but we are not willing to issue ANY code on our own. This is a final decision.
DISCLAIMER: this is my personal POV and NOT a collective statement from wmf LangCom.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
Hoi!
Obviously not :) If and when they will be sent to us for a recommendation the answer will be "rename it according to standard". But they do not have any "trademark war" going on so chances are we'll never get to write recommendations on that issue.
I understand that this is not the most relaxed moment in your life. Yet, you perfectly know that if be-x-old problems had limited to the way in which the code is spelt the issue would never have reached LangCom.
If you guys had solved your problems in peace at internal level nobody would have had spent their time on this issue. It did not happen and now your problems are going to be solved by external parties. You had your chance and you had it for years. Sorry.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Eugene Zelenko Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:01 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Be-x-old (was New language)
Hi!
Just for self-education... Are all Chinese language suffixes (zh-...) ISO-complaint?
Thank you, Eugene.
On 3/27/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Hoi!
As per not communicating the swap you are absolutely right and I excuse myself personally. I know it won't help much but as you can understand
this
is not "everyday business" and we have no standard procedure to manage
such
events. Yet I read Byelorussian and it should have been my own responsibility to reach you and inform you. I did not do it and I
officially
excuse myself for that.
Feel free to contact me personally at any time for any possible problem,
you
can write in Russian if it makes things easier. I will have to answer in English only if the answer has to be notified to LangCom, as I'm the only Russian speaker in LangCom and a Cyrillic answer would not be of any use
to
the other members.
Now to the answers: the domain is being setup by Brion these days, AFAIK there are a few minor technical problems, but that's all. It should be up very quickly.
Domain names are not "fabricated" on community demand; they follow an international ISO standard. The X part means it's a private code that has value for wmf only (it's a standard, too). Under the current rules the
wiki
should be simply shutdown, since it does not have an ISO code.
The Board decided to delegate an ad hoc Committee for this kind of
decisions
and IMHO that's a good warranty for everyone. In the meantime we decided
not
to have any particular descriptive code for the old Byelorussian edition, since it would have implied some kind of political recognition, which is
NOT
what wmf is about.
If in the future your linguistic flavor will obtain a valid ISO code we
will
be glad to adopt it just as we adopt any other internationally recognized code, but we are not willing to issue ANY code on our own. This is a final decision.
DISCLAIMER: this is my personal POV and NOT a collective statement from
wmf
LangCom.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hoi again,
Both domains seem to be up and running, Brion has been quick :)
I personally asked the new be.wikipedia.org to publish a pointer to be-x-old on the first page and I am pleased to see that the pointer is there and it's well evident.
I wish good luck to both wikies.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
Berto 'd Sera wrote:
Both domains seem to be up and running, Brion has been quick :)
Note that there is an IETF mailing list and IANA registration authority for "language subtags", as specified in RFC 4645, 4646, and 4647. These RFC are updating RFC 3066, which is the Internet's equivalent to ISO 3166.
For example, the German spelling reform of 1996 created a need in some instances to tell the old spelling (following Duden's dictionary from 1901) apart from the new one (after the 1996 reform). Thus, the language subtags de-1901 and de-1996 have been registered as official code names for the two German orthographies.
This is to say that there is a way to register an official subtag for "old" Byelorussian (instead of the inofficial be-x-old), if the speakers of that language can agree on a suitable subtag. As always, your chances to succeed are greatest if you are well prepared and already have a consensus within your community.
IANA registry, http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry
IETF mailing list, http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
Hoi, It is extremely unlikely to get a tag for this version of Belarus claiming that it is an old version of Belarus as the aim of it is that it is in competition with the official orthography. It is also not a historic version because it aims to be actively used and aims to replace the official orthography.
These things will get you some really negative reactions..
Thanks, GerardM
PS I have asked people who also write on these mailing lists and it is not likely that a request will be rewarded.
On 3/28/07, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
Berto 'd Sera wrote:
Both domains seem to be up and running, Brion has been quick :)
Note that there is an IETF mailing list and IANA registration authority for "language subtags", as specified in RFC 4645, 4646, and 4647. These RFC are updating RFC 3066, which is the Internet's equivalent to ISO 3166.
For example, the German spelling reform of 1996 created a need in some instances to tell the old spelling (following Duden's dictionary from 1901) apart from the new one (after the 1996 reform). Thus, the language subtags de-1901 and de-1996 have been registered as official code names for the two German orthographies.
This is to say that there is a way to register an official subtag for "old" Byelorussian (instead of the inofficial be-x-old), if the speakers of that language can agree on a suitable subtag. As always, your chances to succeed are greatest if you are well prepared and already have a consensus within your community.
IANA registry, http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry
IETF mailing list, http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
-- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On 28/03/07, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, It is extremely unlikely to get a tag for this version of Belarus claiming
Just leave them at the existing tag and let them be, that's what I'd ask.
---
On 28/03/07, Yury Tarasievich yury.tarasievich@gmail.com wrote:
On 28/03/07, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, It is extremely unlikely to get a tag for this version of Belarus claiming
Just leave them at the existing tag and let them be, that's what I'd ask.
So, what in fact happens with the WP sitting now under be-x-old? Will it get something more understandable after be-x-? What about having interwikis pointing to it?
---
On 27/03/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
This is a bit pessimistic :) The normative Byelorussian wikipedia just was created and substituted the old version, the latter was renamed into be-x-old.
Is there any chance you could summarise the byelorussian issue for those of us who haven't been following it? I've got a query about it and I don't know where to start looking for details...
Hoi!
Depending on how deep you want to go in the subject you can use this simplified picture: http://eng.i-iter.org/you-don-t-let-baby-out-incubator-until-you-are-sure-he -she-can-survive
or you can give me more detailed questions. It's a long and interesting story for a linguist :) From a strictly linguistic POV we simply solved what can be defined as a long "trademark war". Nothing else within this issue falls under our competence.
From a "community POV" AFAIK the two communities *might* now quit their war
and unite to defend the right of be-x-old to exist (which I would personally welcome if the atmosphere was that of a peaceful coexistence). The Byelorussian language is quite in bad shape and needs all the help it can get; wars do not help it, that's for sure.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Gray Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:34 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] New language
On 27/03/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
This is a bit pessimistic :) The normative Byelorussian wikipedia just was created and substituted the old version, the latter was renamed into be-x-old.
Is there any chance you could summarise the byelorussian issue for those of us who haven't been following it? I've got a query about it and I don't know where to start looking for details...
Andre Engels wrote:
Be however warned that there have been no proposals accepted in the last few months.
Andre, your recent comments and questions are full of angry rhetoric and irony. Perhaps you can try to turn that energy into providing useful help to some of the new language communities, helping to improve their applications, finding developers who speak the new language, etc. instead of just spitting your poison on these lists. Maybe you are already doing good and useful work, but your recent postings haven't made this known.
2007/3/28, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se:
Andre, your recent comments and questions are full of angry rhetoric and irony. Perhaps you can try to turn that energy into providing useful help to some of the new language communities, helping to improve their applications, finding developers who speak the new language, etc. instead of just spitting your poison on these lists. Maybe you are already doing good and useful work, but your recent postings haven't made this known.
Helping them improve their applications won't help if they get rejected for something completely different than having bad applications. And who am I to find developers who speak the language?
Helping them improve their applications won't help if they get rejected for something completely different than having bad applications. And who am I to find developers who speak the language?
En daarnaast, ik ben gewoon een negatieve oude zak die voornamelijk ruzie zit te maken. Maar niet lang meer, hoop ik. Ik hoop dat ik eindelijk eens kan besluiten om echt met Wikipedia op te houden.
Andre, you shouldn't feel this way. (unless perhaps you are being sarcastic).
I feel that your arguments are beneficial. Maar wie ben ik om dat te zeggen, I am just a troll according to some people (Bonaparte, the banned sockpuppeteer, and Yann, the steward).
Mark
On 27/03/07, Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com wrote:
Helping them improve their applications won't help if they get rejected for something completely different than having bad applications. And who am I to find developers who speak the language?
En daarnaast, ik ben gewoon een negatieve oude zak die voornamelijk ruzie zit te maken. Maar niet lang meer, hoop ik. Ik hoop dat ik eindelijk eens kan besluiten om echt met Wikipedia op te houden.
-- Andre Engels, andreengels@gmail.com ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
You mean existing MW devs who speak the language? That's doubtful. These languages aren't German and Spanish.
If you mean potential new developers who speak te language, that's slightly less doubtful, depending on the language. For example I don't doubt that we could find a Konknni speaking developer but I am more hesitant to say the same for Kabyle or Latgalian, and will absolutely not say it for Saterfrisian.
Mark
On 27/03/07, Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com wrote:
2007/3/28, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se:
Andre, your recent comments and questions are full of angry rhetoric and irony. Perhaps you can try to turn that energy into providing useful help to some of the new language communities, helping to improve their applications, finding developers who speak the new language, etc. instead of just spitting your poison on these lists. Maybe you are already doing good and useful work, but your recent postings haven't made this known.
Helping them improve their applications won't help if they get rejected for something completely different than having bad applications. And who am I to find developers who speak the language?
-- Andre Engels, andreengels@gmail.com ICQ: 6260644 -- Skype: a_engels _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On 27/03/07, Emmanuel Maggiori emmanuelmaggiori@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, I'm interested in adding a new language go Wikipedia. I would like to know what is what I have to do. Thank you very much.
Apparently you need a shrubbery. A nice one, mind you.
- d.
Dear all,
Seems it is one of the most popular question here, but still... I would like to create a new language wiki-page. The Ingush one.
The English page about this language already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingush_language .
As far as I could check the names like "in" and "ing" are still free.
So I would like to request for creation of incubator page for this language. What we (me and people who actually also interesting for that) have to do for that?
Thank you in advance, Tagir.
Hoi!
You cannot invent a name for it. It must be a valid ISO 639-3 name (it seems to be INH for ingush, but you'll better check it).
The policy for language requests is here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy
You will have to make a request for it on meta and bring in at least some native speakers to help. On a total number of ~400K native speakers we will obviously not request 100 people, 4-5 people will usually be fine. Once you meet the basic requests, to make up an incubator page we will also need some details on the cyrillic flavor you need, in case it's not standard.
Feel free to write to me directly in russian if you or other partecipants in the project have problems with english.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tagir Aushev Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:54 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] New language
Dear all,
Seems it is one of the most popular question here, but still... I would like to create a new language wiki-page. The Ingush one.
The English page about this language already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingush_language .
As far as I could check the names like "in" and "ing" are still free.
So I would like to request for creation of incubator page for this language. What we (me and people who actually also interesting for that) have to do for that?
Thank you in advance, Tagir.
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Is it really so hard for you to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingush_language ?
I thought the job of the Langcom was to facilitate new languages and help them, not make them do every single little thing on their own, even the parts you could just as soon do yourself.
Mark
On 27/03/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Hoi!
You cannot invent a name for it. It must be a valid ISO 639-3 name (it seems to be INH for ingush, but you'll better check it).
The policy for language requests is here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Language_proposal_policy
You will have to make a request for it on meta and bring in at least some native speakers to help. On a total number of ~400K native speakers we will obviously not request 100 people, 4-5 people will usually be fine. Once you meet the basic requests, to make up an incubator page we will also need some details on the cyrillic flavor you need, in case it's not standard.
Feel free to write to me directly in russian if you or other partecipants in the project have problems with english.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojaotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Tagir Aushev Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 9:54 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] New language
Dear all,
Seems it is one of the most popular question here, but still... I would like to create a new language wiki-page. The Ingush one.
The English page about this language already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingush_language .
As far as I could check the names like "in" and "ing" are still free.
So I would like to request for creation of incubator page for this language. What we (me and people who actually also interesting for that) have to do for that?
Thank you in advance, Tagir.
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org