Dear All,
We would like to open a Wiktionary for the Amis language. Amis is an Austronesian language used by the Amis -- one of the Austronesian people in Taiwan. The Amis account for about one third of Taiwan's indigenous population (i.e. 130 thousand), however, many of the younger generation do not speak the language and till now there is still no exact ststistic report of the number of real speakers.
There are two prevailing writing systems of this language: the Presbyterian Church system and the International Phonetic Symbol system, the later is used only within the academic circle. We would like to edit a Wiktionary which basically employs the Presbyterian Church system but also notes the IPS so that readers can also know the exact pronounciations.
At this moment there are at least three people who are willing to commit to this project. They are Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, and Tai-ni Tsou. The former two are native speakers and the later two as ethnographers are also familiar with the academic Amis writing system. Pektiong Tan (zh-min-nan:pektiong) will help those people to get familiar with the wikipedia system.
We would prefer to set the default interface language to be Mandarin with traditional character used in Taiwan (zh-tw) since most of the potential user of this wiktionary can read Mandarin with traditional character.
Proposed domain name: http://amis.wiktionary.org/
Language tag for Amis: ISO 639-2: N.A. ISO 639-3 (Draft): Ami SIL: ALV RFC-3066: i-ami
Sincerely, Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, Tai-ni Tsou, Pektiong Tan
Some info about Taiwanese aborigine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigine
Hoi, For your information the Amis language has a ISO-639 code of ami therefore as the wikimedia projects follow this for its domain names it will be ami.wiktionary.org. With the 1.4 version of the wikimedia software, the interface can be selected by a user. This means that you can create a user interface in native Amis and have people use traditional Chines if they choose this as their personal default.
There are several ways in wich you can start a wiktionary project; when you choose to use the methodology as used in the it:wikitonary and the nl:wiktionary, it will be possible to share a lot of information from other wiktionaries without much effort after the initial setup of your wiktionary. This system uses templates that have a different content in each wiktionary. As the definitions of the templates is the same in all cooperating wiktionaries, content of articles can be copied to another wiktionary without much effort.
Bots that people are working on, will then make it possible to copy Ami words to the other wiktionaries and help create a Italian-Ami or a Dutch-Ami or a Faris-Ami content in the respective wiktionaries.
When there are multiple writing systems, they can be both accomodated in the wiktionary. This is done for Chinese where we have both the traditional and simplified words when we know them. So it would be good to have both the IPS and the PC system for Ami.
Thanks, GerardM
Pochung Chen wrote:
Dear All,
We would like to open a Wiktionary for the Amis language. Amis is an Austronesian language used by the Amis -- one of the Austronesian people in Taiwan. The Amis account for about one third of Taiwan's indigenous population (i.e. 130 thousand), however, many of the younger generation do not speak the language and till now there is still no exact ststistic report of the number of real speakers.
There are two prevailing writing systems of this language: the Presbyterian Church system and the International Phonetic Symbol system, the later is used only within the academic circle. We would like to edit a Wiktionary which basically employs the Presbyterian Church system but also notes the IPS so that readers can also know the exact pronounciations.
At this moment there are at least three people who are willing to commit to this project. They are Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, and Tai-ni Tsou. The former two are native speakers and the later two as ethnographers are also familiar with the academic Amis writing system. Pektiong Tan (zh-min-nan:pektiong) will help those people to get familiar with the wikipedia system.
We would prefer to set the default interface language to be Mandarin with traditional character used in Taiwan (zh-tw) since most of the potential user of this wiktionary can read Mandarin with traditional character.
Proposed domain name: http://amis.wiktionary.org/
Language tag for Amis: ISO 639-2: N.A. ISO 639-3 (Draft): Ami SIL: ALV RFC-3066: i-ami
Sincerely, Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, Tai-ni Tsou, Pektiong Tan
Some info about Taiwanese aborigine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigine _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hello Pochung,
This is a strange coincidence because 3 days ago I was wondering when somebody would start a Wikipedia or a Wiktionary in a Taiwanese aboriginal language. It seems logical that Amis would be the first because it has the largest population.
I have a few things to say.
First of all, you don't need to use a Traditional interface - you can translate the interface to Amis. (not sure if there's a way to say "click here" in Amis, but you could always use Mandarin words when there is no Amis word, or you could coin a new term)
Second of all, I think it will be a good idea to divide efforts between a Wikipedia and a Wiktionary. There are many similarities between the projects, but on Wikipedia you can give much more information about a subject, while in Wiktionary you give information about the word itself (ie pronunciation, translations, definition). Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a "head start" with the Wiktionary until you have a "working lexicon" of 500 words, and then split efforts and start more on a Wikipedia.
While it is more common to start first with a Wikipedia, there have been proposals recently to 'force' or suggest people to start with Wiktionary, because it is less "intensive" and is better to get acquainted with the system.
However, perhaps it will be a good idea to have an article base of 25 or 50 articles on an Amis Wikipedia before concentrating efforts entirely on Wiktionary - good, solid articles about things relevant to Amis people, such as Taiwan, Chinese language, Amis, Amis language, Tayal, Tsou, traditional culture items, and also basic articles on men and women, some plants common in the Amis area, and some animals.
I think that in general it is a Very Good Thing that a project should be started for Amis, as it sets an example for other languages in a similar situation, and provides an outlet for knowledge of Amis people and a place to use exclusively Amis online.
Mark
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 17:15:20 +0800, Pochung Chen pcchen@phys.nthu.edu.tw wrote:
Dear All,
We would like to open a Wiktionary for the Amis language. Amis is an Austronesian language used by the Amis -- one of the Austronesian people in Taiwan. The Amis account for about one third of Taiwan's indigenous population (i.e. 130 thousand), however, many of the younger generation do not speak the language and till now there is still no exact ststistic report of the number of real speakers.
There are two prevailing writing systems of this language: the Presbyterian Church system and the International Phonetic Symbol system, the later is used only within the academic circle. We would like to edit a Wiktionary which basically employs the Presbyterian Church system but also notes the IPS so that readers can also know the exact pronounciations.
At this moment there are at least three people who are willing to commit to this project. They are Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, and Tai-ni Tsou. The former two are native speakers and the later two as ethnographers are also familiar with the academic Amis writing system. Pektiong Tan (zh-min-nan:pektiong) will help those people to get familiar with the wikipedia system.
We would prefer to set the default interface language to be Mandarin with traditional character used in Taiwan (zh-tw) since most of the potential user of this wiktionary can read Mandarin with traditional character.
Proposed domain name: http://amis.wiktionary.org/
Language tag for Amis: ISO 639-2: N.A. ISO 639-3 (Draft): Ami SIL: ALV RFC-3066: i-ami
Sincerely, Nakao Eki, Afah Lisin, Tai-ni Tsou, Pektiong Tan
Some info about Taiwanese aborigine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigine _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 18:39:12 -0700, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Second of all, I think it will be a good idea to divide efforts between a Wikipedia and a Wiktionary. There are many similarities between the projects, but on Wikipedia you can give much more information about a subject, while in Wiktionary you give information about the word itself (ie pronunciation, translations, definition). Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a "head start" with the Wiktionary until you have a "working lexicon" of 500 words, and then split efforts and start more on a Wikipedia.
I disagree; in my opinion it would be better to start just one of the two, whichever the organisers are more interested in. There's just a few people working on the language, and it might be some time before there are more. Splitting efforts in a situation like that seems to me to be detrimental to the project. Of course this does not mean I would be in favor of blocking one or the other, I just want to advise the Amis Wikipedians/Wiktionarians against it.
As another issue, is any of you experienced in Wikipedia? If not, it would be good to have someone from another Wikipedia (the Chinese one seems to be the obvious choice), preferably a sysop and preferably someone with passive knowledge of Amis, to help in setting up your wiki. And of course an announcement should be made in the Chinese (and perhaps Min-nan? I don't know enough about the Taiwanese linguistic situation to judge that) Wikipedia and Wiktionary when this is started.
Andre Engels
Second of all, I think it will be a good idea to divide efforts between a Wikipedia and a Wiktionary. There are many similarities between the projects, but on Wikipedia you can give much more information about a subject, while in Wiktionary you give information about the word itself (ie pronunciation, translations, definition). Perhaps it would be a good idea to get a "head start" with the Wiktionary until you have a "working lexicon" of 500 words, and then split efforts and start more on a Wikipedia.
I disagree; in my opinion it would be better to start just one of the two, whichever the organisers are more interested in. There's just a few people working on the language, and it might be some time before there are more. Splitting efforts in a situation like that seems to me to be detrimental to the project. Of course this does not mean I would be in favor of blocking one or the other, I just want to advise the Amis Wikipedians/Wiktionarians against it.
Perhaps you are right. In this regard I think the best idea is this: get a small number of good articles in Wikipedia, and then change to working primarily on Wiktionary (or, for that matter, the other way around).
As another issue, is any of you experienced in Wikipedia? If not, it would be good to have someone from another Wikipedia (the Chinese one seems to be the obvious choice), preferably a sysop and preferably someone with passive knowledge of Amis, to help in setting up your wiki. And of course an announcement should be made in the Chinese (and perhaps Min-nan? I don't know enough about the Taiwanese linguistic situation to judge that) Wikipedia and Wiktionary when this is started.
"Pektiong Tan (zh-min-nan:pektiong) will help those people to get familiar with the wikipedia system."
Mark
Dear wikipedians,
* About ISO 639 codes There is NO ISO 639-1, 639-2 language code for Amis. There is ISO 639-3 language code for Amis, which is ami. But ISO 639-3: (Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of language) is still in draft and is not finalized/official yet. I personally think the current ISO 639-3 draft is stable enough that wikipedia/wiktionary should use it when necessary.
* Default interface language I understand that one can choose the interface language by setting user preference. However, before one create an account, login, and change the preference, a new user will see some "DEFAULT" interface language. Now if the new user does not know the default language, and the user is new to the mediawiki software then it will be difficult for the new user to find the way to choose some interface language she/he can understand. Ideally the default language should be Amis itself but I image it will take some time before one can translate the interface messages into Amis. Since most of the potential user/contributer know Mandarin (I think). I would suggest to use Mandarin as default interface language (for now).
* User from other wikipedia I, pektiong, from min-nan wikipedia (an op there) will help other people about using mediawiki.
* Wikipedia/Wiktionary I personally think wiktionary will be more useful to the Amis people at this stage. I don't think there are too many Amis dictionary around.
* Announcement Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good idea to announce the creation of Amis wiktionary once it is created. I think we can at least create/extend article about Amis in en, zh, min-nan wikipedias and links to the Amis wiktionary.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions best pektiong
Hi Pochung,
Did you mean to say something?
Mark
On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:58:16 +0800, Pochung Chen pcchen@phys.nthu.edu.tw wrote:
Dear wikipedians,
- About ISO 639 codes
There is NO ISO 639-1, 639-2 language code for Amis. There is ISO 639-3 language code for Amis, which is ami. But ISO 639-3: (Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of language) is still in draft and is not finalized/official yet. I personally think the current ISO 639-3 draft is stable enough that wikipedia/wiktionary should use it when necessary.
- Default interface language
I understand that one can choose the interface language by setting user preference. However, before one create an account, login, and change the preference, a new user will see some "DEFAULT" interface language. Now if the new user does not know the default language, and the user is new to the mediawiki software then it will be difficult for the new user to find the way to choose some interface language she/he can understand. Ideally the default language should be Amis itself but I image it will take some time before one can translate the interface messages into Amis. Since most of the potential user/contributer know Mandarin (I think). I would suggest to use Mandarin as default interface language (for now).
- User from other wikipedia
I, pektiong, from min-nan wikipedia (an op there) will help other people about using mediawiki.
- Wikipedia/Wiktionary
I personally think wiktionary will be more useful to the Amis people at this stage. I don't think there are too many Amis dictionary around.
- Announcement
Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good idea to announce the creation of Amis wiktionary once it is created. I think we can at least create/extend article about Amis in en, zh, min-nan wikipedias and links to the Amis wiktionary.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions best pektiong
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Dear wikipedians,
* About ISO 639 codes There is NO ISO 639-1, 639-2 language code for Amis. There is ISO 639-3 language code for Amis, which is ami. But ISO 639-3: (Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of language) is still in draft and is not finalized/official yet. I personally think the current ISO 639-3 draft is stable enough that wikipedia/wiktionary should use it when necessary.
* Default interface language I understand that one can choose the interface language by setting user preference. However, before one create an account, login, and change the preference, a new user will see some "DEFAULT" interface language. Now if the new user does not know the default language, and the user is new to the mediawiki software then it will be difficult for the new user to find the way to choose some interface language she/he can understand. Ideally the default language should be Amis itself but I image it will take some time before one can translate the interface messages into Amis. Since most of the potential user/contributer know Mandarin (I think). I would suggest to use Mandarin as default interface language (for now).
* User from other wikipedia I, pektiong, from min-nan wikipedia (an op there) will help other people about using mediawiki.
* Wikipedia/Wiktionary I personally think wiktionary will be more useful to the Amis people at this stage. I don't think there are too many Amis dictionary around.
* Announcement Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a good idea to announce the creation of Amis wiktionary once it is created. I think we can at least create/extend article about Amis in en, zh, min-nan wikipedias and links to the Amis wiktionary.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions best pektiong
Tân PekTiong wrote:
Dear wikipedians,
- About ISO 639 codes
There is NO ISO 639-1, 639-2 language code for Amis. There is ISO 639-3 language code for Amis, which is ami. But ISO 639-3: (Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of language) is still in draft and is not finalized/official yet. I personally think the current ISO 639-3 draft is stable enough that wikipedia/wiktionary should use it when necessary.
Important is that it is specifically said that codes that are discarded will not be re-used. So for all intents and purposes once a code is given to a language, it will not reapear for a different language. It is also important to note that the number of languages covered is much bigger. This poses a problem for the codes we made up like "als" for Alsatian, "als" is the ISO-639-3 code for "Gheg Albanian".
....
- Wikipedia/Wiktionary
I personally think wiktionary will be more useful to the Amis people at this stage. I don't think there are too many Amis dictionary around.
Typically I can help setup the template structure for many languages as they are used on many wiktionaries. However as I do not have any Amis words yet let alone the translations for languages, I cannot set it up for you. I am more than happy to help set this up for the Amis wiktionary.
Thanks, GerardM
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org