I think we ought to list each of the recall candidates, and invite their staffs to add to their articles.
Crazy? :)
http://www.sfgate.com/gate/special/pages/2003/recall/ http://www.georgyforgov.com/index.htm ! ! go geeks!
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Morally wrong? Fiscally wrong? Professionally wrong? Be more verbose in your damnations, Fred.
-S-
--- Fred Bauder fredbaud@ctelco.net wrote:
on 8/15/03 1:45 PM, Steve Vertigo at utilitymuffinresearch@yahoo.com wrote:
I think we ought to list each of the recall candidates, and invite their staffs to add to
their
articles.
Crazy? :)
No, just wrong.
Fred
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on 8/15/03 2:06 PM, Steve Vertigo at utilitymuffinresearch@yahoo.com wrote:
Morally wrong? Fiscally wrong? Professionally wrong? Be more verbose in your damnations, Fred.
-S-
Most of the candidates are not appropriate encyclopedia entries despite being candidates in the California Recall Election. Mere entry into the race has a threshold of 50 petition signatures and payment of $3500.
Fred
Hmm. I agree. But what about those who are limited in terms of their coverage, and yet still are "more qualified than most" to be candidates? Inbetweeners if you will.
I guess Im thinking of it more as a sick wikipublicity stunt, TBH (apologies) -- I dont care either way, I do think there should be a full list of candidates here, though.
Thanks, Fred -S-
Morally wrong? Fiscally wrong? Professionally
wrong?
Be more verbose in your damnations, Fred.
-S-
Most of the candidates are not appropriate encyclopedia entries despite being candidates in the California Recall Election. Mere entry into the race has a threshold of 50 petition signatures and payment of $3500.
Fred
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On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 13:33:12 -0700 (PDT), Steve Vertigo utilitymuffinresearch@yahoo.com gave utterance to the following:
Hmm. I agree. But what about those who are limited in terms of their coverage, and yet still are "more qualified than most" to be candidates? Inbetweeners if you will.
I guess Im thinking of it more as a sick wikipublicity stunt, TBH (apologies) -- I dont care either way, I do think there should be a full list of candidates here, though.
In that case can we do the same for the Canterbury Regional Council elections? Or all of the God knows how many hundreds of electoral districts in India? Each of those elections is just as significant to the local residents as the state of California is to Californians, and just as insignificant to the rest of the world.
Richard wrote: In that case can we do the same for
the Canterbury
Regional Council elections? Or all of the God knows how many hundreds of electoral districts in India? Each of those elections is just as significant to the local residents as the state of California is to Californians, and just as insignificant to the rest of the world.
Hm. I disagree. The California Gubernatorial Recall Election is a genuine circus -- thus having amusement value for the entire world.
-S-
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Well, just a couple notes:
* California's population and economy are comparable to those of major European countries. California politics affect the California economy, which affects people elsewhere in the world. (Remember that dot-com thing?)
* Most of the registered candidates in this circus election are utterly irrelevant and would not likely ever have interesting articles.
* By all means we should have informative, interesting articles on regional and local politics.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . till we *) . . .
Richard wrote:
In that case can we do the same for the Canterbury Regional Council elections? Or all of the God knows how many hundreds of electoral districts in India? Each of those elections is just as significant to the local residents as the state of California is to Californians, and just as insignificant to the rest of the world.
I'd say there is a difference between the local level ("Canterbury Regional Council", "Indian electoral districts", "Orange County School Board") and the sub-national state level ("England", "States of India", "California"). These difference is especially visible in the significance to the rest of the world. __ . / / / / ... Till Westermayer - till we *) . . . mailto:till@tillwe.de . www.westermayer.de/till/ . icq 320393072 . Habsburgerstr. 82 . 79104 Freiburg . 0761 55697152 . 0160 96619179 . . . . .
In that case can we do the same for the Canterbury Regional Council elections? Or all of the God knows how many hundreds of electoral districts in India? Each of those elections is just as significant to the local residents as the state of California is to Californians, and just as insignificant to the rest of the world.
Given that the California recall election was covered on the front page of several European newspapers, I'd say there's some empirical evidence that "insignificant to the rest of the world" is inaccurate.
-Mark
Delirium wrote:
In that case can we do the same for the Canterbury Regional Council elections?
[...] Given that the California recall election was covered on the front page of several European newspapers, I'd say there's some empirical evidence
The true "empirical evidence" for Wikipedia would be the access log. The obvious plan is only to print the most visited articles. But some times the most visited articles can be obscure topics that draw visitors through Google just because they aren't covered anywhere else on the web. People who google for, say, "Seattle" or "Paris" will find thousands of other websites.
One of the most visited pages on susning.nu is the name of a Swedish governmental agency that changed its name a couple of years ago. People are googling for the old name and get a hit nowhere else than on susning.nu, where they can learn that the agency has changed its name and a link to its current website. This page serves its purpose, but doesn't really fit in the classic definition of an encyclopedia.
On 18 Aug 2003 23:15:00 +0200, Till Westermayer till@tillwe.de gave utterance to the following:
I'd say there is a difference between the local level ("Canterbury Regional Council", "Indian electoral districts", "Orange County School Board") and the sub-national state level ("England", "States of India", "California"). These difference is especially visible in the significance to the rest of the world.
Well even the smaller states of India are more populous than most US states.
Excuse my ignorance of the US electoral system, but are there gubnertorial contests happening in some or all of the other states at the same time? If there are, then why should California be singled out, other than for the reason that California tends to be self aggrandizing? And the reason for that might be that it is home to the third-largest film and TV industry in the world and the accompanying media circus?
Richard Grevers wrote:
Well even the smaller states of India are more populous than most US states.
Excuse my ignorance of the US electoral system, but are there gubnertorial contests happening in some or all of the other states at the same time? If there are, then why should California be singled out, other than for the reason that California tends to be self aggrandizing? And the reason for that might be that it is home to the third-largest film and TV industry in the world and the accompanying media circus?
Well, one reason is that it's a recall election, not a normal election, which is somewhat unusual in non-parliamentary systems. Secondly, Arnold Schwarzenegger is running an apparently serious campaign, which makes people take notice. If, say, David Hasselhof were running a serious campaign for a state governorship in Germany, it'd probably make the US papers too.
-Mark
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Richard Grevers wrote:
Excuse my ignorance of the US electoral system, but are there gubnertorial contests happening in some or all of the other states at the same time? If there are, then why should California be singled out, other than for the reason that California tends to be self aggrandizing? And the reason for that might be that it is home to the third-largest film and TV industry in the world and the accompanying media circus?
It's not a regularly scheduled election, but a highly unusual recall of a governor who was elected less than a year ago.
Imagine if the prime minister of New Zealand or Ireland were being thrown out on his ear, and tell me we shouldn't cover it?
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Brion Vibber vibber@aludra.usc.edu gave utterance to the following:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Richard Grevers wrote:
Excuse my ignorance of the US electoral system, but are there gubnertorial contests happening in some or all of the other states at the same time? If there are, then why should California be singled out, other than for the reason that California tends to be self aggrandizing? And the reason for that might be that it is home to the third-largest film and TV industry in the world and the accompanying media circus?
It's not a regularly scheduled election, but a highly unusual recall of a governor who was elected less than a year ago.
Imagine if the prime minister of New Zealand or Ireland were being thrown out on his ear, and tell me we shouldn't cover it?
I would expect us to cover it, but not with 200 articles on individual candidates. (Well, you wouldn't get that in NZ because you vote for a party whose leader would become PM if they can form a government, but we have about 30 political parties on our voting form - 7 of whom are currently represented.)
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, Richard Grevers wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 16:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Brion Vibber
Imagine if the prime minister of New Zealand or Ireland were being thrown out on his ear, and tell me we shouldn't cover it?
I would expect us to cover it, but not with 200 articles on individual candidates.
Well, as I've already said, most of the registeredcandidates are of no note and will probably never be covered.
But if they are, what's wrong with that? I'd have no objection to having articles on 200 NZ candidates, should such exist and should be people be interested in making such articles, and NZ is much smaller and less relevant on the world stage than California. ;)
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Richard Grevers wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 23:15:00 +0200, Till Westermayer till@tillwe.de gave utterance to the following:
I'd say there is a difference between the local level ("Canterbury Regional Council", "Indian electoral districts", "Orange County School Board") and the sub-national state level ("England", "States of India", "California"). These difference is especially visible in the significance to the rest of the world.
Well even the smaller states of India are more populous than most US states.
I think that there is a "market" for some of this oddball information.
Excuse my ignorance of the US electoral system, but are there gubnertorial contests happening in some or all of the other states at the same time? If there are, then why should California be singled out, other than for the reason that California tends to be self aggrandizing? And the reason for that might be that it is home to the third-largest film and TV industry in the world and the accompanying media circus?
The media circus only adds flavour of the event. Each US state has its own rules to determine the length of term of office for state officials, often even with some logic to the matter. The current events in California are irregular in that it first involves an attempt to recall the current governor, Gray Davis, from office in the middle of his term. This way the California process won't be upstaged by any similar events in other states. (I'm sorry but the states of India with the same reverance in the mind of the average American, even if there are more West Bengalis than Californians.) Californians will receive two ballots on October 7. In the first they will be asked if Gray Davis is to keep his job; that matter can be decided by a simple majority of votes cast. If he does keep his job the second vote will be moot. The real fun begins in the very likely possibility that Californians shoose to give him the boot. The winner will be the top vote getter in a list of 135 candidates who have bought lottery tickets. In theory the winner could be governor with the support of less than 1% of the voters... which then means very much less than 1% of Californians.
The laughter is being shared by citizens of the other states equally with those of other countries, and perhaps wryly even with some good-humoured Californians.
Ec
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 05:56:44PM -0700, Ray Saintonge wrote:
The laughter is being shared by citizens of the other states equally with those of other countries, and perhaps wryly even with some good-humoured Californians.
What's funny about having recall voting ? We're doing it all the time here for local government (but if current city council is recalled, full new elections are made, not just plurality voting)
Tomasz Wegrzanowski wrote:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2003 at 05:56:44PM -0700, Ray Saintonge wrote:
The laughter is being shared by citizens of the other states equally with those of other countries, and perhaps wryly even with some good-humoured Californians.
What's funny about having recall voting ? We're doing it all the time here for local government (but if current city council is recalled, full new elections are made, not just plurality voting)
It's not the concept of recall that provokes laughter; it's the way the Californians have turned it into a circus.
Ray
on 8/15/03 2:33 PM, Steve Vertigo at utilitymuffinresearch@yahoo.com wrote:
Hmm. I agree. But what about those who are limited in terms of their coverage, and yet still are "more qualified than most" to be candidates? Inbetweeners if you will.
I guess Im thinking of it more as a sick wikipublicity stunt, TBH (apologies) -- I dont care either way, I do think there should be a full list of candidates here, though.
Thanks, Fred -S-
Identifying and publicizing the qualifications of those in the race who are more qualified than the Terminatior (most of them) is creative work and not encyclopedic.
Fred
Steve Vertigo wrote:
Hmm. I agree. But what about those who are limited in terms of their coverage, and yet still are "more qualified than most" to be candidates? Inbetweeners if you will.
I guess Im thinking of it more as a sick wikipublicity stunt, TBH (apologies) -- I dont care either way, I do think there should be a full list of candidates here, though.
Thanks, Fred -S-
I have no problem with listing all 135. The rest of us can have fun at California's expense. :-) It may be difficult to find enough material to create a biographical blurb or comment about every one of them. I like the idea that there is at least one grown-up among them; Mary "Mary Carey" Cook lists herself as an adult film actress. ;-) Will she do as well as the sumo wrestler?
On a slightly more serious vein, how can an appropriate branch of Wikimedia present a truly independent view of any election anywhere in the world?
Ec
Steve Vertigo utilitymuffinresearch@yahoo.com wrote:I think we ought to list each of the recall candidates, and invite their staffs to add to their articles.
Crazy? :)
http://www.sfgate.com/gate/special/pages/2003/recall/ http://www.georgyforgov.com/index.htm ! ! go geeks!
I strongly disagree. How could they possibly give us NPOV articles?
RickK
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