Hello!
I recently noticed that Slovene common image descriptions have also English text, eg.: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Evo7glyph.png
Is this a bug or somebody's intention?
On Sun, 3 Jul 2005, Roman Maurer wrote:
Hello!
I recently noticed that Slovene common image descriptions have also English text, eg.: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Evo7glyph.png
Is this a bug or somebody's intention?
It's intentional, see
http://www.archivum.info/wikitech-l@wikimedia.org/2005-07/msg00023.html
Alfio
Alfio Puglisi pravi:
I recently noticed that Slovene common image descriptions have also English text, eg.: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Evo7glyph.png
Is this a bug or somebody's intention?
It's intentional, see
http://www.archivum.info/wikitech-l@wikimedia.org/2005-07/msg00023.html
Alfio, thank you for this link! But this feature is nonsense, it's language imperialism! :-(
For example, I uploaded photograph Slovenska_lipa_srebrnik_averz.jpg in order to use it on Slovene Wikipedia, while still making it possible for others to use. Now why do I have to see English description on http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Slovenska_lipa_srebrnik_averz.jpg ?
IMHO the only situation this feature would be useful is if there was *no* description in local wikipedia language - this way English description would be better than nothing.
I'll report this as a bug of MediaWiki.
Roman Maurer pravi:
I'll report this as a bug of MediaWiki.
Here it is: http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2689
I recently noticed that Slovene common image descriptions have also English text, eg.: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Evo7glyph.png
Is this a bug or somebody's intention?
This is just because no one has yet added any text in Slovenian to the image description page at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Slovenska_lipa_srebrnik_averz.jpg
The commons is not an English language project, but a multi-lingual one where you are encouraged to add content in all languages, making the images easier to use across all projects.
Angela.
Angela schrieb:
The commons is not an English language project, but a multi-lingual one where you are encouraged to add content in all languages, making the images easier to use across all projects.
Well, that's right, but the different Wikipedias aren't... I wondered whether it was possible to show for examle in de.wikipedia only the image descriptions in german language, if available, and on en: only the english desrciptions... I think technically it should be possible; if every image description contained those templates ({{English}}, {{Deutsch}}, {{Francais}} etc) it should be more or less easy to "extract" the english informations and show them on en: and no other informations, right?... (sorry for my lousy english but its nearly 1a.m.*yawn*)
n8, rdb
Raphael Wiegand wrote:
Angela schrieb:
The commons is not an English language project, but a multi-lingual one where you are encouraged to add content in all languages, making the images easier to use across all projects.
Well, that's right, but the different Wikipedias aren't... I wondered whether it was possible to show for examle in de.wikipedia only the image descriptions in german language, if available, and on en: only the english desrciptions... I think technically it should be possible; if every image description contained those templates ({{English}}, {{Deutsch}}, {{Francais}} etc) it should be more or less easy to "extract" the english informations and show them on en: and no other informations, right?... (sorry for my lousy english but its nearly 1a.m.*yawn*)
n8, rdb
Hoi,
There is one scheme for localising the Commons searchwords and categories.. This was described in http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Using_Ultimate_Wiktionary_for_Commons You may like to know that this scheme is likely to be implemented. I do not need to be convinced that we can find the funding for a programmer, I am certain we can.
Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 3 Jul 2005, Roman Maurer wrote:
Alfio Puglisi pravi:
I recently noticed that Slovene common image descriptions have also English text, eg.: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slika:Evo7glyph.png
Is this a bug or somebody's intention?
It's intentional, see
http://www.archivum.info/wikitech-l@wikimedia.org/2005-07/msg00023.html
Alfio, thank you for this link! But this feature is nonsense, it's language imperialism! :-(
It isn't. It was actually a highly requested feature, because often images are included from commons and until ow one had to click an additional link to know if the image was public domain or GFDL or whatever.
If the description is English-only, it's just because someone wrote it in English and not in Slovenian or some other language. Translations on the commons page are welcome.
Now that I think about it, license templates like {{GFDL}} should have some way of specifying the language, because they always appear in English on the commons wiki and will appear in English as well on local description pages. Kate's code probably takes commons' page HTML code instead of the wikicode (otherwise templates wouldn't work), so it's not easy to change this.
Alfio
Alfio Puglisi wrote:
Now that I think about it, license templates like {{GFDL}} should have some way of specifying the language, because they always appear in English on the commons wiki and will appear in English as well on local description pages. Kate's code probably takes commons' page HTML code instead of the wikicode (otherwise templates wouldn't work), so it's not easy to change this.
What if {{GFDL}} is tranported from commons to a local language site, and expanded there? So on nl:, we would get [[nl:Template:GFDL]], on de [[de:Template:GFDL]], etc. Would probably require software tweaks as well...
Gerrit.
On 05/07/05, Gerrit Holl gerrit@nl.linux.org wrote:
Alfio Puglisi wrote:
Kate's code probably takes commons' page HTML code instead of the wikicode (otherwise templates wouldn't work), so it's not easy to change this.
What if {{GFDL}} is tranported from commons to a local language site, and expanded there? So on nl:, we would get [[nl:Template:GFDL]], on de [[de:Template:GFDL]], etc. Would probably require software tweaks as well...
I think the fundamental reason why this doesn't already happen is that it requires a kind of "semi-raw" format for the included text: currently, the text is rendered as HTML on commons, and then included; if it wasn't, *all* the links would refer to local pages, and you'd get spurious categories, links to non-existent or irrelevant pages, etc.
The ideal solution would be to have licence templates expanded locally, but everything else expanded on commons. Or rather, the *ideal* solution would be to store licence information as language-independent metadata, descriptions in multiple languages, and use something like the "content negotiation" in HTTP to determine what to include or display... :)
Rowan Collins wrote:
The ideal solution would be [...] to store licence information as language-independent metadata, descriptions in multiple languages, and use something like the "content negotiation" in HTTP to determine what to include or display... :)
Sounds good to me. ;-)
Seriously, image licences are meta-data, and should be treated as such (as should lots of other stuff - interwikis, categories, etc.), and we on the Wikimedia Research Team^WNetwork are looking into the plausibility of modifying MediaWiki to have meta-data accessed separately.
Quite apart from anything else, the use of proper meta-data for licensing would (will? ;-)) allow useful queries to be made, such as "grab articles in the category 'British monarchs' where all elements are either Public Domain worldwide, GFDL, or CC-BY", which would allow semi-automatic creation of non-infringing items for publication anywhere (though there still might be problems, such as local blasphemy laws, etc., which would be difficult to cover).
Note that this would need a quite advanced tagging system (c.f. the discussion on wikien-l over the fact that our 'PD' images of Lindisfarne scrolls are only PD in the United States, and are infringing in the UK), which would be, erm, 'fun'.
Yours,
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org