<rant>
24's (User:24.150.61.63) activities are beginning to become a real nuisance. He/she continues to create new entries that really appear to be idiosyncratic nonsense that Google consistently only can find a handfull of examples of. The terms that 24 comes up up, and then creates articles about seem to be used by a very small group of like-minded people.
For example: military fiat (his/her term for military control over a monetary system) = 160 hits, verbal rape = 136 hits, social rape = 99 hits, Earth rape = 95 hits, eco-rape = 97 hits. Given the fact that Google tracks literally billions of webpages, such a small number can easily be explained by chance.
24 also created [[wikipedia:Natural Point of View]] as some type of replacement of NPOV, makes other articles that are improperly capitalized, such as [[Green Movement]], after he/she is made aware of naming conventions, he/she also makes improperly pluralized pages such as [[Eco-villages]] knowing about that policy etc., etc., etc., etc. A partial list of what 24 has been up to is on [[Wikipedia utilities/Pages needing attention]].
Frankly, I am sick of having to be drawn into discussion with this person and clean of his/her messes. By posting these idiosyncratic articles and ideas on wikipedia this person is magnifying their exposure and importance beyond what is warrented by the number (and arguably quality) of people who actually believe this stuff.
An analogy, would be a news agency that is more concerned with making news than reporting it. Should wikipedia become a place where crackpots can air their views and gain unwarranted exposure? Should we be in the business of legitimizing terms and definitions that Google can only find a small handfull of examples of? Do we want wikpedia to become a soapbox?
24's activities are similar to what User:QIM has done with his Masculism article - except 24 is truly prolific in the amount of material that he/she is submitting (and at least "Masculism" gets about a 1000 hits - mostly emails and personal pages though). I do believe that 24 is harming the project - at the very least this person is causing unproductive angst among longtimes users. The actions of this person is probably also giving visitors and newbies the wrong idea about the project.
Don't get me wrong, I am not indicating that the merit of a term is not to be solely based on the number of hits on Google. However, when the content or title itself is questionable, surprising or really not at all NPOV (that's neutral point of view, not natural point of view), then Google can be used as some sort of objective measure of merit.
I think it is time to warn 24 to cease many of the above activities.
</rant>
user:maveric149
On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:01:13 Daniel Lee Mayer wrote:
24's activities are similar to what User:QIM has done with his Masculism article - except 24 is truly prolific in the amount of material that he/she is submitting (and at least "Masculism" gets about a 1000 hits - mostly emails and personal pages though). I do believe that 24 is harming the project - at the very least this person is causing unproductive angst among longtimes users. The actions of this person is probably also giving visitors and newbies the wrong idea about the project.
He's wasting a lot of people's time.
Don't get me wrong, I am not indicating that the merit of a term is not to be solely based on the number of hits on Google. However, when the content or title itself is questionable, surprising or really not at all NPOV (that's neutral point of view, not natural point of view), then Google can be used as some sort of objective measure of merit.
I think it is time to warn 24 to cease many of the above activities.
Yes.
Is 24 aware of the existence of this mailing list? The mailing list format is much better for discussing these meta-issues.
Daniel Lee Mayer wrote:
24 also created [[wikipedia:Natural Point of View]] as some type of replacement of NPOV,
I'll have to read this, but NPOV is non-negotiable. So long as stuff like this is on the meta wikipedia, that's fine, though. He's entitled to his opinions, and we're entitled to ignore him or learn from him, as may be appropriate.
makes other articles that are improperly capitalized, such as [[Green Movement]], after he/she is made aware of naming conventions, he/she also makes improperly pluralized pages such as [[Eco-villages]] knowing about that policy etc., etc., etc., etc.
Improper capitalization is bad.
An analogy, would be a news agency that is more concerned with making news than reporting it. Should wikipedia become a place where crackpots can air their views and gain unwarranted exposure? Should we be in the business of legitimizing terms and definitions that Google can only find a small handfull of examples of? Do we want wikpedia to become a soapbox?
I would say "no", "yes" and "no". :-) Let me explain.
Let's say there is a term -- "military fiat" which is not widely used, but which does have a fairly consistent usage when it is used. Then, our article on it should describe what the term means, and who uses it that way.
The particular article, [[Military fiat]] is pretty bad currently, but I don't think that the existence of the article is problematic. A quick search of google reveals that "military fiat" is not a common expression, but when it is used, it does mean "a process whereby a decision is made and enforced by military means without the participation of other political elements."
I do believe that 24 is harming the project - at the very least this person is causing unproductive angst among longtimes users. The actions of this person is probably also giving visitors and newbies the wrong idea about the project.
[...]
I think it is time to warn 24 to cease many of the above activities.
Well, warn seems to imply an "or else". Or else what?
Unless his actions rise to the level of vandalism, I don't think we'd be wise to ban him. That would be a horrible precedent, I think. Very un-wiki.
I'd say that the only "or else" that's validly open to us is "or else we'll continue to edit the hell out of your articles until they are NPOV". There's a lot more of everyone else than him.
--Jimbo
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