Hi, I'm the hy:wp admin that Berto 'd Sera (thanks for doing this!).
The logo was uploaded by another admin, and there was no nationalistic idea behind this, as far as I can tell (definitely not in the sense discussed in this thred). There is a very strong language to nation to ethnos relationship (correlation) when it comes to Armenian (Armenians, Armenia), and the flag can and is frequently used as a symbol of all the three. While I certainly understand the sentiment (wp edition is for language not nation), this point was never considered around the logo, since, quite honestly, I don't think anyone took the logo to be a nationalistic stamp on wikipedia (and many users did approve it after the upload).
My own concern with the logo was around the issue of copyright, the logo being copyrighted by the WM, which was discussed on hy:wp. So after trying the IRC, and not getting a certain answer about the logo policies, I contacted the OTRS and received the following reply:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wikipedia information team info-en@wikimedia.org Date: Jun 13, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [Ticket#2007061410001127] Wikipedia logo modification > policies To: teak teak.wiki@gmail.com
Dear teak,
Thank you for your mail.
teak teak.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Are there any policies, or established practice about allowing modification of Wikimedia's projects' logos? The specific question that I have is about modifying the image part of "Wiki.png" on local Wikipedias, e.g. is http://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki.png an allowed modification of the copyrighted image, even if it's being > > used on one of Wikimedia's projects?
This question has come up in the Armenian Wikipedia around the issue whether http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki.png is allowed.
Thanks,
teak. hy:User:Teak
Try reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_logo_derivatives, > but they are generally allowed. I remember the Russians adding an award > they got to their logo and was allowed.
Yours sincerely, Zachary Harden
So I guess a better logo policy outline may help others in similar situations. In any case, the modified logo is coming out, I'll change back to the usual one shortly.
teak.
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Florence Devouard Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:20 PM To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] National flag on wikipedia logo
Marco Chiesa wrote:
Hi, surfing on hy.wikipedia (Armenian I think) I've noticed that the logo has been coulored with the national flag colours. Not having a clue on Armenian, I'm not sure if this is only a temporary change (National Holidays?) or a permanent change. I think it shouldn't be allowed in the latter case, since wikipedia is about languages and not countries.
Cruccone
Ack ! Whilst I am supportive of temporary (as in "24 hours") fun logo for special events, setting up a permanent derivative logo is really wrong, in particular when it refers to a nation.
Can someone talk to them and explain to them it is not okay to do this ? I would be interested to know the process followed which led to such a decision. Might it reflect internal bias or a misunderstanding of the nature of our project ?
Ant
teak wrote:
Hi, I'm the hy:wp admin that Berto 'd Sera (thanks for doing this!).
The logo was uploaded by another admin, and there was no nationalistic idea behind this, as far as I can tell (definitely not in the sense discussed in this thred). There is a very strong language to nation to ethnos relationship (correlation) when it comes to Armenian (Armenians, Armenia), and the flag can and is frequently used as a symbol of all the three. While I certainly understand the sentiment (wp edition is for language not nation), this point was never considered around the logo, since, quite honestly, I don't think anyone took the logo to be a nationalistic stamp on wikipedia (and many users did approve it after the upload).
My own concern with the logo was around the issue of copyright, the logo being copyrighted by the WM, which was discussed on hy:wp. So after trying the IRC, and not getting a certain answer about the logo policies, I contacted the OTRS and received the following reply:
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Wikipedia information team info-en@wikimedia.org Date: Jun 13, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [Ticket#2007061410001127] Wikipedia logo modification > policies To: teak teak.wiki@gmail.com
Dear teak,
Thank you for your mail.
teak teak.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Are there any policies, or established practice about allowing modification of Wikimedia's projects' logos? The specific question that I have is about modifying the image part of "Wiki.png" on local Wikipedias, e.g. is http://uz.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki.png an allowed modification of the copyrighted image, even if it's being > > used on one of Wikimedia's projects?
This question has come up in the Armenian Wikipedia around the issue whether http://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiki.png is allowed.
Thanks,
teak. hy:User:Teak
Try reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Uses_of_logo_derivatives, > but they are generally allowed. I remember the Russians adding an award > they got to their logo and was allowed.
Yours sincerely, Zachary Harden
So I guess a better logo policy outline may help others in similar situations. In any case, the modified logo is coming out, I'll change back to the usual one shortly.
teak.
Nod. I guess Zachary answered thinking that it was a temporary logo, to celebrate something; not meant to be permanent. It was not obvious from your original message.
Indeed, the guidelines page is not very explicit :-)
ant
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Florence Devouard Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:20 PM To: wikipedia-l at lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] National flag on wikipedia logo
Marco Chiesa wrote:
Hi, surfing on hy.wikipedia (Armenian I think) I've noticed that the logo has been coulored with the national flag colours. Not having a clue on Armenian, I'm not sure if this is only a temporary change (National Holidays?) or a permanent change. I think it shouldn't be allowed in the latter case, since wikipedia is about languages and not countries.
Cruccone
Ack ! Whilst I am supportive of temporary (as in "24 hours") fun logo for special events, setting up a permanent derivative logo is really wrong, in particular when it refers to a nation.
Can someone talk to them and explain to them it is not okay to do this ? I would be interested to know the process followed which led to such a decision. Might it reflect internal bias or a misunderstanding of the nature of our project ?
Ant
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org