I love these kinds of debates - the ones that can go around in circles until the cows come home. Sure, I get pissed off (AE pissed) at american spellings as much as the next bloke - but it doesn't mean I can't follow what's going on - nor does it mean that it will ever influence my pristine, strawberries and cream, Oxbridge, very best of the Queen's english - with a name like Giuseppe d'Angelo - you wouldn't expect otherwise would you?
I love the fact that there are a couple of thousand words that might be found in wikipedia with two spellings (both equally acceptable). It makes it easier for me to point to my thick skulled paisani and say to them: don't worry if a word can be spelled two or three (or five or seven) ways in Sicilian - it's the same word and we all understand it regardless of how you want to spell it - it's not as big an issue as you think - look at English! - the language of the lower orders under Norman rule now rules the world - but the varieties are as many as teams in the English FA. It hasn't mattered one jot - there are more important things to worry about - like who will win out of the Sydney Swans and West Coast Eagles this Saturday at the MCG and will Bazza be rubbed out for a week? And has there truly been a leak in the brownlow voting? Now they're important questions! Salutamu pippu d'angelo
--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the end of their sentences. American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard. On 19/09/05, Giuseppe DAngelo pippudoz@yahoo.it wrote:
I love these kinds of debates - the ones that can go around in circles until the cows come home. Sure, I get pissed off (AE pissed) at american spellings as much as the next bloke - but it doesn't mean I can't follow what's going on - nor does it mean that it will ever influence my pristine, strawberries and cream, Oxbridge, very best of the Queen's english - with a name like Giuseppe d'Angelo - you wouldn't expect otherwise would you?
I love the fact that there are a couple of thousand words that might be found in wikipedia with two spellings (both equally acceptable). It makes it easier for me to point to my thick skulled paisani and say to them: don't worry if a word can be spelled two or three (or five or seven) ways in Sicilian - it's the same word and we all understand it regardless of how you want to spell it - it's not as big an issue as you think - look at English!
- the language of the lower orders under Norman rule now rules the world -
but the varieties are as many as teams in the English FA. It hasn't mattered one jot - there are more important things to worry about - like who will win out of the Sydney Swans and West Coast Eagles this Saturday at the MCG and will Bazza be rubbed out for a week? And has there truly been a leak in the brownlow voting? Now they're important questions! Salutamu pippu d'angelo
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3 _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the end of their sentences. American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard.
The trend toward American dumbing down and illiteracy has been significant in the two centuries since the time of Noah Webster. If England had done a better job of educating its colonists in the 1770s it might not have been overcome by this band of ruffians. Has English really progressed when it must rely on mixed clichés of Rome and Scotland? I have never heard an American use the term "makey-uppy", and I am also unfamiliar with its use in Standard English; perhaps it would be enlightening to know what dialect of England has so enriched the language with this term.
I am well aware of the difficulties with "center" and "color" in Wikipedia, but I have failed to notice where a rising intonation has been so obvious in written speech. Could you please give us an example of where this is so apparent?
I appreciate the desire to see the Americans set adrift on their own "Stone Raft", but failing this we are left with the herculean task of trying to re-integrate them into the rest of the world as much in language as n politics. American Wikipedians have perhaps progressed more swiftly on this path than their less informed countrymen; they already accept that there is a world beyond their borders We have already coloured their thoughts. Now is no time for your proposal of "coitus interruptus".
On 19/09/05, Giuseppe DAngelo pippudoz@yahoo.it wrote:
I love these kinds of debates - the ones that can go around in circles until the cows come home. Sure, I get pissed off (AE pissed) at american spellings as much as the next bloke - but it doesn't mean I can't follow what's going on - nor does it mean that it will ever influence my pristine, strawberries and cream, Oxbridge, very best of the Queen's english - with a name like Giuseppe d'Angelo - you wouldn't expect otherwise would you?
One needs to remember that the Queen's English is the language of the privileged classes in England. That makes it anything but common.
Ec
This is sounding more and more racist (or ethno-centric) to me...it's just a bunch of spellings. You never have to use them, ever! Just put that extra 'u' in color, and stick an 's' in colorize, and flip the 'e' and 'r' in center and meter.
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jack & Naree Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:31 AM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Anglicised English British English
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply
can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the end of their sentences. American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard. On 19/09/05, Giuseppe DAngelo pippudoz@yahoo.it wrote:
I love these kinds of debates - the ones that can go around in circles until the cows come home. Sure, I get pissed off (AE pissed) at american spellings as much as the next bloke - but it doesn't mean I can't follow what's going on - nor does it mean that it will ever influence my
pristine,
strawberries and cream, Oxbridge, very best of the Queen's english - with
a
name like Giuseppe d'Angelo - you wouldn't expect otherwise would you?
I love the fact that there are a couple of thousand words that might be found in wikipedia with two spellings (both equally acceptable). It makes
it
easier for me to point to my thick skulled paisani and say to them: don't worry if a word can be spelled two or three (or five or seven) ways in Sicilian - it's the same word and we all understand it regardless of how
you
want to spell it - it's not as big an issue as you think - look at
English!
- the language of the lower orders under Norman rule now rules the world -
but the varieties are as many as teams in the English FA. It hasn't
mattered
one jot - there are more important things to worry about - like who will
win
out of the Sydney Swans and West Coast Eagles this Saturday at the MCG and
will Bazza be rubbed out for a week? And has there truly been a leak in
the
brownlow voting? Now they're important questions! Salutamu pippu d'angelo
Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3 _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!)
Then I guarantee you won't want to have anything to do with WP. The minute you try to "clean up" [[United States Constitution]], you're going to get into the mother of all edit wars!
Stan
On 19/09/05, Stan Shebs shebs@apple.com wrote:
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!)
Then I guarantee you won't want to have anything to do with WP. The minute you try to "clean up" [[United States Constitution]], you're going to get into the mother of all edit wars!
Someone posted to the en: Help Desk telling us, very smugly, they'd found a typo in one of our articles on the Constitution (or the Declaration of Independence), and explaining patiently that this was the *English* way of spelling the word not the *American*.
Much to my delight, it turned out to have been spelt that way in the original (though a lot of online transcriptions silently corrected it...)
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the end of their sentences. American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard.
The English upper class has been in charge of spelling standardisation for the best part of 400 years, and they've made an absolute hash of it. They inserted silent letters all over the place (e.g. island), and kept historical spellings so far past their use-by date as to be bizarre (e.g. knight). The English spelling system is a linguistic laughing stock. Maybe it's about time we let someone else take control.
It's a pity the debate has to be so politically charged, wouldn't it be nice if we could judge Webster's reforms by their merits?
Note that whatever it is, rising intonation is definitely not a form of Americanisation, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
-- Tim Starling (Australian)
Oh god... those stupid silent letters.
"Oh gee we like Latin so much!!! Let's insert a letter for no good reason."
Island, receipt, etc
On 20/09/05, Tim Starling t.starling@physics.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the end of their sentences. American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard.
The English upper class has been in charge of spelling standardisation for the best part of 400 years, and they've made an absolute hash of it. They inserted silent letters all over the place (e.g. island), and kept historical spellings so far past their use-by date as to be bizarre (e.g. knight). The English spelling system is a linguistic laughing stock. Maybe it's about time we let someone else take control.
It's a pity the debate has to be so politically charged, wouldn't it be nice if we could judge Webster's reforms by their merits?
Note that whatever it is, rising intonation is definitely not a form of Americanisation, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
-- Tim Starling (Australian)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE
We're so much more educated than you, you know!
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson Sent: 20 September 2005 08:45 To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Anglicised English British English
Oh god... those stupid silent letters.
"Oh gee we like Latin so much!!! Let's insert a letter for no good reason."
Island, receipt, etc
On 20/09/05, Tim Starling t.starling@physics.unimelb.edu.au wrote:
Jack & Naree wrote:
Well I don't want to live in an Americanised world; I'd rather take arms against a sea of illiterate yanks, than suffer the slings and arrows of their nauseating makey-uppy drawl. (and yes I do have American friends!) I know it's not going to feed the starving children in Africa, but I simply can't feckin' stand seeing the word "center" and "color" and hearing people raising the intonation at the
end of their sentences.
American-English is like a giant linguistic fingernail down the English blackboard.
The English upper class has been in charge of spelling standardisation for the best part of 400 years, and they've made an absolute hash of it. They inserted silent letters all over the place (e.g. island), and kept historical spellings so far past their use-by date as to be bizarre (e.g. knight). The English spelling system is a linguistic laughing stock. Maybe it's about time we let someone else take control.
It's a pity the debate has to be so politically charged, wouldn't it be nice if we could judge Webster's reforms by their merits?
Note that whatever it is, rising intonation is definitely not a form of Americanisation, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
-- Tim Starling (Australian)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.1/104 - Release Date: 16/09/2005
On 9/20/05, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Oh god... those stupid silent letters.
"Oh gee we like Latin so much!!! Let's insert a letter for no good reason."
Island, receipt, etc
fuckinA, and why have four syllables when you can have FIVE !!
Aluminium* *
Puddl Duk wrote:
On 9/20/05, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Oh god... those stupid silent letters.
"Oh gee we like Latin so much!!! Let's insert a letter for no good reason."
Island, receipt, etc
and why have four syllables when you can have FIVE !!
Aluminium
Because the IUPAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC) says so ;) See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Spelling for more fun :)
More Roman (American) imperialism and theft of the truth (!), that we Greeks (British) must not just resist, but fight!
Jack & Naree wrote:
More Roman (American) imperialism and theft of the truth (!), that we Greeks (British) must not just resist, but fight!
Would you like some french fries? Perhaps you would care for some colored cookies? Perhaps an Anglicized name?
no I'll stick to chips, biscuits, and my anglicised name thanks.
So you prefer Doritos to French fries, and would order Jackson biscuits (http://www.jacksonbiscuit.com/) over frosted cookies (http://www.bloomingcookies.com/frosted-cookie-recipe.aspx)? If you say so... But I never eat Doritos with a nice hamburger, nor do I have a southern-style biscuit for a desert or snack, rather for breakfast.
James
PS - UK cultural imperialism - from the country that invented it! PPS - this is sarcasm, get over it.
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jack & Naree Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:21 AM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Anglicised English British English
no I'll stick to chips, biscuits, and my anglicised name thanks. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Anyone else prefer Lay's chips and Dorito's over french fries? And anyone else prefer having biscuits as a desert/snack over cookies?
James
PS - this is sarcasm. Get over it. PPS - I never watched my step while in London, but I did mind the gap. It was a breathtaking gap, and thinking about it was so worthwhile on the subways there.
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jack & Naree Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:21 AM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Anglicised English British English
no I'll stick to chips, biscuits, and my anglicised name thanks. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
James R. Johnson wrote:
Anyone else prefer Lay's chips and Dorito's over french fries? And anyone else prefer having biscuits as a desert/snack over cookies?
You mean crisps over Belgian-style fried potato sticks? :) Corn chips are a whole different kettle of fish ;)
This reminds me of one of the [[Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars ever]], addressing a double dispute:
[[Potato chips]]
"Should potato chips be flavored or flavoured? What is the provenance of the potato chip, America or UK? Four-user revert war on these important issues results in the page getting protected and listed on RfC. As a compromise, the chips become 'seasoned.'"
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
PS: Apologies for adding to this useless thread
On 9/21/05, Alphax alphasigmax@gmail.com wrote:
James R. Johnson wrote:
Anyone else prefer Lay's chips and Dorito's over french fries? And anyone else prefer having biscuits as a desert/snack over cookies?
You mean crisps over Belgian-style fried potato sticks? :) Corn chips are a whole different kettle of fish ;)
-- Alphax | /"\ Encrypted Email Preferred | \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign OpenPGP key ID: 0xF874C613 | X Against HTML email & vCards http://tinyurl.com/cc9up | / \ _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
The English upper class has been in charge of spelling standardisation for the best part of 400 years, and they've made an absolute hash of it. They inserted silent letters all over the place (e.g. island), and kept historical spellings so far past their use-by date as to be bizarre (e.g. knight). The English spelling system is a linguistic laughing stock. Maybe it's about time we let someone else take control.
...and the American system is better?!
It's a pity the debate has to be so politically charged, wouldn't it be nice if we could judge Webster's reforms by their merits?
Note that whatever it is, rising intonation is definitely not a form of Americanisation, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
-- Tim Starling (Australian)
who cares, it's ugly.
_______________________________________________
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Giuseppe DAngelo wrote: <snip>
It hasn't mattered one jot - there are more important things to worry about - like who will win out of the Sydney Swans and West Coast Eagles this Saturday at the MCG and will Bazza be rubbed out for a week? And has there truly been a leak in the brownlow voting? Now they're important questions!
If I had any money, it'd be on West Coast, but based on the way both teams played last week - the Crows have been up and down all season, and the Saints weren't exactly favourites either - should be a close one...
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org