My crappy Win2k laptop won't do non-ISO-8859-1 very well at all. (This is not a request for tech support.) So, while fiddling with the portal page, I managed to put "The Free Encyclopedia" up the top in all the six >50k languages except Japanese. Could someone please fix this? It should be the characters used on their version of the Wikipedia logo.
The portal template is [[m:Www.wikipedia.org_portal]] .
(Also, I see the logo has no version of our glorious catchphrase. Would someone be able to do a version with all six versions? I would except I'm in a rush today.)
For those wondering, the next three largest languages are nl: (47k articles), it: (32k) and pt: (28k). I predict nl: will go on an all-out drive for new articles ;-)
It'd be nice if our page was as cool as www.wikipedia.ch . Six search boxes?
Kate mooted on IRC the idea of autotranslating the page based on browser accept language - not quite a redirect, but the same content rendered in the language the browser says it speaks. What do you all think?
- d.
I think that's a moot point, as the ideal portal should just have names of languages to choose from - nothing to be translated.
Mark
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 01:00:12 +1100, David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au wrote:
My crappy Win2k laptop won't do non-ISO-8859-1 very well at all. (This is not a request for tech support.) So, while fiddling with the portal page, I managed to put "The Free Encyclopedia" up the top in all the six >50k languages except Japanese. Could someone please fix this? It should be the characters used on their version of the Wikipedia logo.
The portal template is [[m:Www.wikipedia.org_portal]] .
(Also, I see the logo has no version of our glorious catchphrase. Would someone be able to do a version with all six versions? I would except I'm in a rush today.)
For those wondering, the next three largest languages are nl: (47k articles), it: (32k) and pt: (28k). I predict nl: will go on an all-out drive for new articles ;-)
It'd be nice if our page was as cool as www.wikipedia.ch . Six search boxes?
Kate mooted on IRC the idea of autotranslating the page based on browser accept language - not quite a redirect, but the same content rendered in the language the browser says it speaks. What do you all think?
- d.
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark Williamson (node.ue@gmail.com) [050109 06:40]:
I think that's a moot point, as the ideal portal should just have names of languages to choose from - nothing to be translated.
That must be some sort of absolute minimalist portal, then ... which I'm *not* sure is the best portal.
I'm thinking of the stuff that's presently in English on the portal page.
Also, it could do with a multilingual 'search' or 'go' function (as on wikipedia.ch) - though en: search is off at present.
- d.
On Saturday 08 January 2005 23:36, David Gerard wrote:
That must be some sort of absolute minimalist portal, then ... which I'm *not* sure is the best portal.
A minimalist portal is the best thing you can have.
Definitely. The only purpose it should serve is to direct the user to the desired Wikipedia. There are "search" and "go" boxes at the respective Wikipedias.
Another issue is size. All the languages with over 100 articles will easily fit in a minimalist portal, but if you want to have search and go boxes, article of the week, whatever, for each one - even if you restrict it to above 1000 articles - it's going to be gargantuan and un-useful.
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages. This is a BAD idea because there are speakers of French in Japan, speakers of Thai in Malta, speakers of Catalan in Greece, etc; also some languages are indigenous to more than one country, or they don't have a corresponding flag (for diaspora languages such as Yiddish and Ladino), or it's not recognizable to most speakers of the language.
Mark
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 23:53:45 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Saturday 08 January 2005 23:36, David Gerard wrote:
That must be some sort of absolute minimalist portal, then ... which I'm *not* sure is the best portal.
A minimalist portal is the best thing you can have.
-- NSK The Wikinerds Community Federation of Science Wikis Owner of the Wikinerds Portal http://portal.wikinerds.org Owner of the NerdyPC IT Wiki http://www.nerdypc.org _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark Williamson a écrit:
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages. This is a BAD idea because there are speakers of French in Japan, speakers of Thai in Malta, speakers of Catalan in Greece, etc; also some languages are indigenous to more than one country, or they don't have a corresponding flag (for diaspora languages such as Yiddish and Ladino), or it's not recognizable to most speakers of the language.
Not a prediction. It was already done. And reverted.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Www.wikipedia.org_portal&old...
Opinions ?
Anthere
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005, Anthere wrote:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages.
Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com a écrit:
Not a prediction. It was already done. And reverted.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Www.wikipedia.org_portal&old...
Opinions ?
I have read the discussion here on the con's, and have not seen any of the pro's.
I like it. We should get past the supposed political incorrectness and see it as /easy/, /visual/, and /obvious/.
I live in South Africa - predominantly English, but with significant other languages, and (for example) a nascent Afrikaans encyclopedia.
What flag for Afrikaans ? Maybe the beautiful new South African Flag ?
Sigh - visions of panties getting into a knot.
What flag for English ? The crusty old country, or the defender of democracy ?
I do not think North Americans mind it being the British flag.
It is just a portal - moving you quickly on to your destination.
Cheers, Andy!
~~~~ :wq
[[en:User:Wikiwizzy]]
Andy Rabagliati a écrit:
What flag for English ? The crusty old country, or the defender of democracy ?
<trolling mood> The idea of a flag is to go quickly. A symbol that most readers will recognise as representing a language. A concept obvious for everyone. Do you think everyone will naturally click on this flag to go to english language ? </trolling mood>
/me running away and not commenting any more on this slippery issue
Andy Rabagliati wrote:
What flag for English ? The crusty old country, or the defender of democracy ?
I do not think North Americans mind it being the British flag.
The Canadian part of North America would likely prefer the British flag (or cross of St. George) I plead ignorance about the defender of democracy. Iceland and San Marino have long standing traditions in that direction, but neither are English speaking countries. :-)
Ec
On Monday 10 January 2005 03:18, Ray Saintonge wrote:
The Canadian part of North America would likely prefer the British flag
Whatever you do, at least don't use a US flag to represent English. I never visit such sites.
Why not use icons of alphabetical or written elements to represent languages?
This is bad for usability for blind people, and some languages use multiple scripts or the same scripts as other languages.
Mark
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:33:26 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Monday 10 January 2005 03:18, Ray Saintonge wrote:
The Canadian part of North America would likely prefer the British flag
Whatever you do, at least don't use a US flag to represent English. I never visit such sites.
Why not use icons of alphabetical or written elements to represent languages?
-- NSK Come to see the new wikiprojects at http://portal.wikinerds.org _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Monday 10 January 2005 09:36, Mark Williamson wrote:
This is bad for usability for blind people, and some languages use
same for flags
multiple scripts or the same scripts as other languages.
similar problem exists for flags
Of course the same problem exists for flags. I am merely saying that this won't work, not that flags will.
Mark
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:44:59 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Monday 10 January 2005 09:36, Mark Williamson wrote:
This is bad for usability for blind people, and some languages use
same for flags
multiple scripts or the same scripts as other languages.
similar problem exists for flags
-- NSK Come to see the new wikiprojects at http://portal.wikinerds.org
Anthere (anthere9@yahoo.com) [050109 18:05]:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages. This is a BAD idea because there are speakers of French in Japan, speakers of Thai in Malta, speakers of Catalan in Greece, etc; also some languages are indigenous to more than one country, or they don't have a corresponding flag (for diaspora languages such as Yiddish and Ladino), or it's not recognizable to most speakers of the language.
Not a prediction. It was already done. And reverted. Opinions ?
I dislike the flag idea, because it's supposed to be languages, not countries. (Bosian, Croation and Srpski having separate wikis notwithstanding.)
Furthermore, you just *know* some idiot will change the UK flag to a US flag. Then another will revert it. Then someone will put both on. Then someone else will object to a language having *two* flags. Then soeone else will use that horrible split US/UK flag I've seen on some multilingual portals. Then someone will protect the page. I suspect flags will provide too much material for idiocy.
- d.
David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au writes:
I dislike the flag idea, because it's supposed to be languages, not countries.
Yes, flags are national symbols. Let's stay away from them as much as possible. If you think a webpage without pictures does not work, use portraits for speakers of these languages (and change them monthly...).
In message 20050109155648.GI21075@thingy.apana.org.au, David Gerard fun-e016Bj8cE8tLBo1qDEOMRrpzq4S04n8Q@public.gmane.org writes
Anthere (anthere9-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org) [050109 18:05]:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages. This is a BAD idea because there are speakers of French in Japan, speakers of Thai in Malta, speakers of Catalan in Greece, etc; also some languages are indigenous to more than one country, or they don't have a corresponding flag (for diaspora languages such as Yiddish and Ladino), or it's not recognizable to most speakers of the language.
Not a prediction. It was already done. And reverted. Opinions ?
I dislike the flag idea, because it's supposed to be languages, not countries. (Bosian, Croation and Srpski having separate wikis notwithstanding.)
Furthermore, you just *know* some idiot will change the UK flag to a US flag. Then another will revert it. Then someone will put both on. Then someone else will object to a language having *two* flags. Then soeone else will use that horrible split US/UK flag I've seen on some multilingual portals. Then someone will protect the page. I suspect flags will provide too much material for idiocy.
Well, we /could/ use the English flag (Cross of St George)..... the only problem would then be that most English-speakers wouldn't recognise it!
But what about the Anglo-Saxon Wikipedia!?!?!!??!!!?
Anyhow, what flag should we use for French? The flag of France? That is very discriminatory. French is the first language of Quebec, and the only official language of plenty of countries on multiple continents (though mostly in Africa).
What about Portuguese? Or Spanish? Or English?
What about Chinese? Taiwanese people will be very offended by the communist flag, and displaying the nationalist flag might even get us blocked by Chinese proxies, not to mention the fact that it is also the official language in Singapore.
What about Hindi? The Indian flag is a bit offensive because that implies that Hindi is *the* language of the union, which it is not. It also excludes Fijian speakers of Hindi.
What about Dutch? The Netherlands, Belgium, Surinam, and a couple of other places speak Dutch.
What about German? or Arabic?
Mark
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:57:01 +0000, Arwel Parry arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk wrote:
In message 20050109155648.GI21075@thingy.apana.org.au, David Gerard fun-e016Bj8cE8tLBo1qDEOMRrpzq4S04n8Q@public.gmane.org writes
Anthere (anthere9-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org) [050109 18:05]:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
One prediction I have is that somebody will suggest adding flags to make it easier to choose languages. This is a BAD idea because there are speakers of French in Japan, speakers of Thai in Malta, speakers of Catalan in Greece, etc; also some languages are indigenous to more than one country, or they don't have a corresponding flag (for diaspora languages such as Yiddish and Ladino), or it's not recognizable to most speakers of the language.
Not a prediction. It was already done. And reverted. Opinions ?
I dislike the flag idea, because it's supposed to be languages, not countries. (Bosian, Croation and Srpski having separate wikis notwithstanding.)
Furthermore, you just *know* some idiot will change the UK flag to a US flag. Then another will revert it. Then someone will put both on. Then someone else will object to a language having *two* flags. Then soeone else will use that horrible split US/UK flag I've seen on some multilingual portals. Then someone will protect the page. I suspect flags will provide too much material for idiocy.
Well, we /could/ use the English flag (Cross of St George)..... the only problem would then be that most English-speakers wouldn't recognise it!
-- Arwel Parry http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Arwel Parry (arwel@cartref.demon.co.uk) [050110 09:58]:
Well, we /could/ use the English flag (Cross of St George)..... the only problem would then be that most English-speakers wouldn't recognise it!
I live in East London. Boy do the locals know that flag. Of course, you did say "speakers" rather than "grunters" ...
("In order to assist other motorists in identifying potentially dangerous drivers, it is now compulsory for anyone with a lower than average driving ability to display a warning flag (comprising of a red cross on a white background) attached to top of at least one door of their vehicle. For exceptionally low ability, additional flags are required.")
- d.
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org