Hy @ all
As first, sorry my bad english... my preferred languages are German and French.
I'm interested to start - http://ch.wikipedia.org and - http://ch.wikinews.org
details on ch.wikipedia.org: Switzerland is especially: The national languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh and this by only 7 millions habitants. There's already a Page for swiss users: http://wikimedia.org/ch-portal/ but i think that's a bad seller. I have further plans with respectable and multilingual content for Switzerland.
details on ch.wikinews.org: same motivation like ch.wikipedia.org and Switzerland has a strong economy with a lot's of interesting news. Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. And so, we have other interestes than germany. and so on.
Are there also Plans like this? Can i help? If there no plans i will to start first with wikipedia.ch and secondly wikinews.ch. Are someone interesstet to help?
best regards Michael Rueetschli business data processing specialist Switzerland
In general Wikipedias are being divided by language, not by country. Sure, Swiss users will have different interests than German, French or Italian ones, but those are I think better served by adding Swiss content to the existing Wikipedias than by creating a new, multi-lingual Wikipedia.
Andre Engels
As first, sorry my bad english... my preferred languages are German and French.
I'm interested to start
details on ch.wikipedia.org: Switzerland is especially: The national languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh and this by only 7 millions habitants. There's already a Page for swiss users: http://wikimedia.org/ch-portal/ but i think that's a bad seller. I have further plans with respectable and multilingual content for Switzerland.
details on ch.wikinews.org: same motivation like ch.wikipedia.org and Switzerland has a strong economy with a lot's of interesting news. Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. And so, we have other interestes than germany. and so on.
Are there also Plans like this? Can i help? If there no plans i will to start first with wikipedia.ch and secondly wikinews.ch. Are someone interesstet to help?
best regards Michael Rueetschli business data processing specialist Switzerland _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:32:41 +0100, Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com wrote:
In general Wikipedias are being divided by language, not by country. Sure, Swiss users will have different interests than German, French or Italian ones, but those are I think better served by adding Swiss content to the existing Wikipedias than by creating a new, multi-lingual Wikipedia.
I agree with this philosophy entirely as it applies to Wikipedia. However, I think the poster may have a point about Wikinews.
Locale and nationality have more importance for news content than for encyclopaedic content. The sort of news relevant to a French speaker in Quebec or in Cameroon may be entirely different from that relevant to those in France.
I'm not suggesting separating wikinews sites by country or locale: that's the wrong idea. Mixing languages in one wikinews site is a bad idea, and articles in the same language should be housed together, as many can be re-used (such as those which concern international events).
Here's a suggestion to resolve some of this: have a country or locale-specific news index page on all wikinews sites, and make the URL <languagecode>.wikinews.<countrycode> redirect to this page. For example, en.wikinews.ca would redirect to a page on en.wikinews.org indexing English-language Canadian news, while fr.wikinews.ca would redirect to a similar page for French-language Canadian news on fr.wikinews.org.
regards,
Steve
That's a good idea there...en.wikinews.uk or en.wikinews.usa sound good.
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Forrest Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:39 PM To: Andre Engels; wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] start a new Wikipedia / Wikinews
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:32:41 +0100, Andre Engels andreengels@gmail.com wrote:
In general Wikipedias are being divided by language, not by country. Sure, Swiss users will have different interests than German, French or Italian ones, but those are I think better served by adding Swiss content to the existing Wikipedias than by creating a new, multi-lingual Wikipedia.
I agree with this philosophy entirely as it applies to Wikipedia. However, I think the poster may have a point about Wikinews.
Locale and nationality have more importance for news content than for encyclopaedic content. The sort of news relevant to a French speaker in Quebec or in Cameroon may be entirely different from that relevant to those in France.
I'm not suggesting separating wikinews sites by country or locale: that's the wrong idea. Mixing languages in one wikinews site is a bad idea, and articles in the same language should be housed together, as many can be re-used (such as those which concern international events).
Here's a suggestion to resolve some of this: have a country or locale-specific news index page on all wikinews sites, and make the URL <languagecode>.wikinews.<countrycode> redirect to this page. For example, en.wikinews.ca would redirect to a page on en.wikinews.org indexing English-language Canadian news, while fr.wikinews.ca would redirect to a similar page for French-language Canadian news on fr.wikinews.org.
regards,
Steve _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On 31 Dec 2004, at 02:14, James R. Johnson wrote:
That's a good idea there...en.wikinews.uk or en.wikinews.usa sound good.
'''Oppose.''' Beware of balkanization. The above proposal would lead to a situation where people would not only just read about the so-called "locally relevant" issues that interest them, but it would probably very soon also lead to the respective wikis mostly containing the locally predominant POV -- which may be sharply at odds with the rest of the world. There are enough global media franchises whose "localized" products sell well enough due to added local slant and preselection. Our mission, I dare to believe, is to transcend these things and reach for higher goals.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:48 +0100, Jens Ropers ropers@ropersonline.com wrote:
On 31 Dec 2004, at 02:14, James R. Johnson wrote:
That's a good idea there...en.wikinews.uk or en.wikinews.usa sound good.
'''Oppose.''' Beware of balkanization. The above proposal would lead to a situation where people would not only just read about the so-called "locally relevant" issues that interest them, but it would probably very soon also lead to the respective wikis mostly containing the locally predominant POV
Please don't leap to conclusions. If you read what I wrote (which is what James was replying to), I *did not* suggest having wikinews sites specific to a country *and* language. Aside from the obvious POV issues, this would be a complete waste of time simply because of duplication of effort.
My suggestion was that, for example, en.wikinews.ca could redirect to a particular page about Canadian news in the English wikinews site, such as http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Canada.
These locale index pages would just be regular wikinews pages. Their purpose would be to serve as a collection of links to news stories relevant to a particular country or locale. The stories they linked to would not themselves be tied to the locale in any way (and therefore subject to locale-specific POV issues); they would just be regular pages on en.wikinews.org.
I appreciate the need to avoid POV issues, but surely maintaining a collection of links to stories relevant to a specific locale serves a useful purpose.
regards,
Steve
My suggestion was that, for example, en.wikinews.ca could redirect to a particular page about Canadian news in the English wikinews site, such as http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Canada.
Yes! I think this is the right way.
On 31 Dec 2004, at 04:14, Stephen Forrest wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 03:52:48 +0100, Jens Ropers ropers@ropersonline.com wrote:
'''Oppose.''' Beware of balkanization. The above proposal would lead to a situation where people would not only just read about the so-called "locally relevant" issues that interest them, but it would probably very soon also lead to the respective wikis mostly containing the locally predominant POV
Please don't leap to conclusions. If you read what I wrote (which is what James was replying to), I *did not* suggest having wikinews sites specific to a country *and* language. Aside from the obvious POV issues, this would be a complete waste of time simply because of duplication of effort.
My suggestion was that, for example, en.wikinews.ca could redirect to a particular page about Canadian news in the English wikinews site, such as http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Canada.
These locale index pages would just be regular wikinews pages. Their purpose would be to serve as a collection of links to news stories relevant to a particular country or locale. The stories they linked to would not themselves be tied to the locale in any way (and therefore subject to locale-specific POV issues); they would just be regular pages on en.wikinews.org.
I appreciate the need to avoid POV issues, but surely maintaining a collection of links to stories relevant to a specific locale serves a useful purpose.
Sorry, I think my hasty skim-reading of the thread caught me there. I did indeed mistakenly believe that there was a proposal in the works to divide stuff into country-specific wikis.
However: I am still not too hot on the idea of "localized news renditions", even if achieved purely through portal pages which link to articles in one or more language-based wikis. It's always annoyed me beyond measure that a copy of TIME magazine, NEWSWEEK (and even, I hear, THE ECONOMIST) purchased in, say, the US is not identical to one available in Europe. IMHO this is a Very Bad Thing because Globalization Is Good For You and nobody buys TIME magazine with the expectation of reading a European magazine anyway, so half-hearted efforts towards "filtering" offerings so they're more palatable/attractive/"relevant" to the local populace are pretty pointless and damaging. How does this apply to us? Well, the Internet is global and it equally annoys me if entities come up with different offerings for different physical places. That said, you're of course free to create any individual article you wish (including portal articles) and if enough people support the idea, they will stay and grow. But count me out.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
I'm not suggesting that we balkanize or limit to only locally relevant news...I'm just fine with the idea of en.wikinews.uk being a redirect to the English wikinews site, though that'd be a bit redundant. That's the good thing about wiki as a whole is that it gets over the local bias (the European bias, American bias, etc.) with so many contributors.
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jens Ropers Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:53 AM To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] start a new Wikipedia / Wikinews
On 31 Dec 2004, at 02:14, James R. Johnson wrote:
That's a good idea there...en.wikinews.uk or en.wikinews.usa sound good.
'''Oppose.''' Beware of balkanization. The above proposal would lead to a situation where people would not only just read about the so-called "locally relevant" issues that interest them, but it would probably very soon also lead to the respective wikis mostly containing the locally predominant POV -- which may be sharply at odds with the rest of the world. There are enough global media franchises whose "localized" products sell well enough due to added local slant and preselection. Our mission, I dare to believe, is to transcend these things and reach for higher goals.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
_______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
But then wouldn't these local pages start to become biased? There would undoubtedly be many more Canadian editors at the Canada article than Americans, not in small part because of the redirect.
I really think there should be some way to integrate national news into the mainpage so it remains edited by all...
Mark
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 05:30:09 +0100, James R. Johnson modean52@comcast.net wrote:
I'm not suggesting that we balkanize or limit to only locally relevant news...I'm just fine with the idea of en.wikinews.uk being a redirect to the English wikinews site, though that'd be a bit redundant. That's the good thing about wiki as a whole is that it gets over the local bias (the European bias, American bias, etc.) with so many contributors.
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Jens Ropers Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 3:53 AM To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] start a new Wikipedia / Wikinews
On 31 Dec 2004, at 02:14, James R. Johnson wrote:
That's a good idea there...en.wikinews.uk or en.wikinews.usa sound good.
'''Oppose.''' Beware of balkanization. The above proposal would lead to a situation where people would not only just read about the so-called "locally relevant" issues that interest them, but it would probably very soon also lead to the respective wikis mostly containing the locally predominant POV -- which may be sharply at odds with the rest of the world. There are enough global media franchises whose "localized" products sell well enough due to added local slant and preselection. Our mission, I dare to believe, is to transcend these things and reach for higher goals.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 14:17:59 -0700, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
But then wouldn't these local pages start to become biased? There would undoubtedly be many more Canadian editors at the Canada article than Americans, not in small part because of the redirect.
I really think there should be some way to integrate national news into the mainpage so it remains edited by all...
While I agree that the local pages would attract disporportionate representation from people from the country in question, I don't think this is a big problem. Anyone can edit the pages in question, and I'd hope that Wikinews would discourage any trend of only allowing, say, Canadians to edit http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Canada.
My argument is that at some point, you have to specialize to be useful. Articles of global interest, like American foreign policy or the Asian tsunami, obviously should be on the front page. But there are many stories of particular interest to specific groups of people which wouldn't belong there.
For example: Canada's national news broadcaster (the CBC) is currently running a story (see [1]) about some nurses at an English-speaking hospital in the (mostly French-speaking) province of Quebec who were fired for failing a French proficiency test.
The issue relates to a number recurring themes in Canadian politics: language relations, controversy over the promotion of French by the Quebec government, discontent in Quebec's anglophone minority. While this probably touches on analogous themes in other bilingual nations, I wouldn't expect a lot of non-Canadians to care, so I it wouldn't belong on the Wikinews front page. But I would argue it's important enough to Canadians to belong on the proposed http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Canada.
Steve
[1] http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/01/05/quebec-nurses050105.html
Sorry, this is unacceptable.
The ch: subdomain for both Wikipedia and Wikinews is reserved for the Chamorro language of Guam. You may think it's a bit obscure, but it's their national language and it has a few hundred thousand speakers.
Currently, the policy (as far as I know) is to have no separate Wikipedias or Wikinewses for different countries, only for different languages (thus, since Mexico and Spain both speak Spanish, there will be a Spanish version but no Mexican or Spain-ish version).
If you are interested in a separate Wikipedia for Swiss German (as people seemed to be doing at ch.wikipedia until recently, this is not allowed), there is already the Allemannic Wikipedia which has some Swiss users already I believe, but it seeks to integrate content from all Allemannic varieties (thus including not only Swiss varieties but Austrian, Liechtensteinian, Alsatian, etc).
There already exists a separate portal for Switzerland, with links to the different Swiss Wikipedias (ie Deutsch, Français, Italiano, and Rumantsch Grischun).
Mark
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:11:06 +0100, michael rueetschli m.rueetschli@gmail.com wrote:
Hy @ all
As first, sorry my bad english... my preferred languages are German and French.
I'm interested to start
details on ch.wikipedia.org: Switzerland is especially: The national languages are German, French, Italian, and Romansh and this by only 7 millions habitants. There's already a Page for swiss users: http://wikimedia.org/ch-portal/ but i think that's a bad seller. I have further plans with respectable and multilingual content for Switzerland.
details on ch.wikinews.org: same motivation like ch.wikipedia.org and Switzerland has a strong economy with a lot's of interesting news. Switzerland is not a member of the European Union. And so, we have other interestes than germany. and so on.
Are there also Plans like this? Can i help? If there no plans i will to start first with wikipedia.ch and secondly wikinews.ch. Are someone interesstet to help?
best regards Michael Rueetschli business data processing specialist Switzerland _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org