FYI - just posted this to my blog ... so don't be astonished to see some repetitive message on user pages
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Many of you eventually know that I am dealing with the Fundraiser 2007 of the Wikimedia Foundation ... well ... there is one thing I feel a bit strange about: it seems as if general messages in village pumps and mailing lists where we ask for help simply don't go through ... or people simply don't read ... now there is a last attempt to be made and this is contact people one by one ... that is going through the projects and ask active people for help. In some way it makes me feel like spamming around and I don't feel actually comfortable with that, but on the other hand it seems to be the only chance we have ... uhmmm ... will go and do that now ... don't know if this translation of a saying is correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
p.s. and yes, I already added a fundraiser button to my blog ;-)
-- Posted By Sabine Cretella to words & more http://sabinecretella.blogspot.com/2007/09/fundraiser-2007-responsiveness-of.html
at 9/16/2007 03:26:00 PM
"Sabine Cretella" sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote in message news:46ED352D.7040309@yahoo.it... ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements gmane@kennel17.co.uk wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote in message news:46ED352D.7040309@yahoo.it... ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
"Thomas Dalton" wrote
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" wrote ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
A common misconception...
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back in English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733). In German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, mu?der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements gmane@kennel17.co.uk wrote:
"Thomas Dalton" wrote
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" wrote ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
A common misconception...
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back in English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733). In German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, mu?der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
Interesting. However, the commonly used saying is the other way around. Perhaps it doesn't accurately describe the Islamic story, but that is the saying.
"Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote in message news:a4359dff0709170748lf145ac1j6f5b16c1568fb3d9@mail.gmail.com...
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements
gmane@kennel17.co.uk wrote:
"Thomas Dalton" wrote
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" wrote ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the
mountain,
take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to
Mohammed,
Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
A common misconception...
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to
give
proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and
said,
'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to
our
destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he
has
had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back
in
English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in
1678.
First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733).
In
German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten
kommt,
mu?der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New
York,
1996).
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
Interesting. However, the commonly used saying is the other way around. Perhaps it doesn't accurately describe the Islamic story, but that is the saying.
Hmmm.... In my experience the most common form is "Well, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed..." meaning "very well, I'll do it myself", I'm not sure how the other way round would work. "Well, if Mohammed won't go to the mountain..." meaning, "very well, I'll do it for you" doesn't make much sense (given that a mountain is unmovable...). Or perhaps you meant some other usage.
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
Hmmm.... In my experience the most common form is "Well, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed..." meaning "very well, I'll do it myself", I'm not sure how the other way round would work. "Well, if Mohammed won't go to the mountain..." meaning, "very well, I'll do it for you" doesn't make much sense (given that a mountain is unmovable...). Or perhaps you meant some other usage.
That's pretty much the usage I had in mind. It's a figure of speech, it doesn't have to make sense.
"Thomas Dalton" thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote in message news:a4359dff0709170813v707402d0gd1ce2c0cd0554857@mail.gmail.com...
Hmmm.... In my experience the most common form is "Well, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed..." meaning "very well, I'll do it myself", I'm
not
sure how the other way round would work. "Well, if Mohammed won't go to
the
mountain..." meaning, "very well, I'll do it for you" doesn't make much sense (given that a mountain is unmovable...). Or perhaps you meant
some
other usage.
That's pretty much the usage I had in mind. It's a figure of speech, it doesn't have to make sense.
*grin* - fair point!
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
Mark Clements wrote:
"Thomas Dalton" wrote
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" wrote ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
A common misconception...
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back in English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733). In German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, mu?der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
Thank you!
It's not often that someone on this list bursts popular bubbles with real research. Still, an NPOV fanatic could still insist that both readings should be given equal weight, historical background notwithstanding. :-)
Ec
It's not often that someone on this list bursts popular bubbles with real research. Still, an NPOV fanatic could still insist that both readings should be given equal weight, historical background notwithstanding. :-)
Idioms are part of language. Language is defined by usage, not by origin.
"Thomas Dalton" wrote
On 17/09/2007, Mark Clements wrote:
"Sabine Cretella" wrote ... don't know if this translation of a saying is
correct in English: when the prophet does not come to the mountain, take the mountain to the prophet ... have a great Sunday!
Pretty close. In English it is "If the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain".
Almost... try it the other way around. ;)
A common misconception...
IF THE MOUNTAIN WILL NOT COME TO MOHAMMED, MOHAMMED WILL GO TO THE MOUNTAIN - "If one cannot get one's own way, one must adjust to the inevitable. The legend goes that when the founder of Islam was asked to give proofs of his teaching, he ordered Mount Safa to come to him. When the mountain did not comply, Mohammed raised his hands toward heaven and said, 'God is merciful. Had it obeyed my words, it would have fallen on us to our destruction. I will therefore go to the mountain and thank God that he has had mercy on a stiff-necked generation.' The saying has been traced back in English to 'Essays,' (1625) by English philosopher Frances Bacon (1561-1626). It was included in John Ray's book of English proverbs in 1678. First attested in the United States in 'Jonathan Belcher Papers' (1733). In German, the phrase translates as 'Wenn der Berg nicht zum Propheten kommt, mu?der Prophetzum Berg kommen." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" (1996) by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).
- Mark Clements (HappyDog)
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