When writing on Phase II, I was thinking about little flags for the different languages. We'd just need a merged GB/US flag for en.wikipedia.com...
I don't like flags, and I guess many others also don't like them. If we really need some kind picture to represent a language, then please let's choose an image of a famous person who used this language to produce something important/famous/extraordinary/...
I don't like the idea of a "portal" page at all, and the idea of using flags is even worse; flags represent /countries/, and the very concept of "country" is something I want nothing to do with.
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Magnus
Magnus Manske magnus.manske@epost.de writes:
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Is he immediately recognisable in the German speaking world?
Gareth Owen wrote:
Magnus Manske magnus.manske@epost.de writes:
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Is he immediately recognisable in the German speaking world?
Should be, but if we go for popularity, Schwarzenegger might be better ;-)
Magnus Manske wrote:
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Is he immediately recognisable in the German speaking world?
Should be, but if we go for popularity, Schwarzenegger might be better ;-)
I'm only joking, of course, but I think that by far the most instantly recognizable German is Hitler, with that funny moustache and all. I think almost everyone on the planet would know Hitler instantly.
The point of my joke is just that I don't think the mapping from famous people into languages is a very easy thing to do correctly.
Even Magnus's joke helps to show this: Schwarzenegger is most commonly thought of as an American with a funny accent, not a German. If I saw icons with Shakespeare, Schwarzenegger and PePe LePew, I wouldn't automatically think "English, German, and French", I would think "Fine arts, action films, and cartoons".
Similarly, Shakespeare and Goethe represent 'literature' to me, not 'langugages'.
--Jimbo
--- Jimmy Wales jwales@bomis.com wrote: If I saw
icons with Shakespeare, Schwarzenegger and PePe LePew, I wouldn't automatically think "English, German, and French", I would think "Fine arts, action films, and cartoons".
Similarly, Shakespeare and Goethe represent 'literature' to me, not 'langugages'.
I don't know who is exactly pepe lepew; and I certainly don't know how he looks like. Another french famous in america but not in his native country ???
May I suggest Coluche or Desproges ? I supposed these are not known by canadians ? I don't see why french langage would be represented by a French man. By the way, we write "fran�ais" for the language and "Fran�ais" for the french man. These two words are absolutely not interchangeable. That's both grammar flaw and countrycentrism.
I disagree both with faces and flags use.
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--- Anthere anthere5@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know who is exactly pepe lepew; and I certainly don't know how he looks like. Another french famous in america but not in his native country ???
*ahem*
Pepe Lepew is a Loony Toons cartoon character. He is a French skunk. Sort of. In Pepe Lepew cartoons, "french" is spoken by adding "le" to English words. In every cartoon, a hapless black cat somehow gets a white stripe of paint on her back, and Pepe falls in love with her, thinking she is a "petite femme skunk". She does not, however, reciprocate his amorous feelings, especially since his smell is rather offensive to all of God's creation.
I can understand why he isn't famous in France...
Stephen Gilbert
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On 10/15/02 11:21 AM, "Stephen Gilbert" canuck_in_korea2002@yahoo.com wrote:
--- Anthere anthere5@yahoo.com wrote:
I don't know who is exactly pepe lepew; and I certainly don't know how he looks like. Another french famous in america but not in his native country ???
*ahem*
Pepe Lepew is a Loony Toons cartoon character. He is a French skunk. Sort of. In Pepe Lepew cartoons, "french" is spoken by adding "le" to English words. In every cartoon, a hapless black cat somehow gets a white stripe of paint on her back, and Pepe falls in love with her, thinking she is a "petite femme skunk". She does not, however, reciprocate his amorous feelings, especially since his smell is rather offensive to all of God's creation.
I've incorporated your write-up into the excellent [[Pepe le Pew]] entry.
On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 10:38:37PM +0200, Magnus Manske wrote:
lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Au contraire! I'd vote for the [[Brothers Grimm]], them writing both fairy tales and the German Dictionary.
OK, just trolling. Goethe will be fine :-)
JeLuF
Magnus Manske wrote:
lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
de chooses Goethe (I didn't ask, but I'm sure they'll agree with me:-)
Something like this?
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selige_linguam_Wikipediae_maestro_literaturae
;)
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
I totally agree about the flags -- I'm against them. Flags are for countries, not languages.
lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
I don't like even this idea. My reason is that I wouldn't know what Hugo and Cervantes looked like if they were in my bathtub. It's hard to know what image could universally represent various languages, and this is especially true for "smaller" languages.
What one person or image would be universally recognized as German, for example? (Hitler, but he's not a good choice for obvious reasons!)
I like the idea of visual representations, but I think words are best for this. My mind could be changed if someone clever came up with an obvious set of symbols that I felt would be inoffensive in every respect and instantly recognizable. But I think that's unlikely.
--Jimbo
Jimmy Wales wrote:
I totally agree about the flags -- I'm against them. Flags are for countries, not languages.
That seems to be emerging as a consensus.
lcrocker@nupedia.com wrote:
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
This idea is neat, but several problems have been pointed out: 1. not all of these people are recognisable 2. it's a bit simplistic to reduce an entire language to one person 3. (not yet been raised, but...) they're all male. 4 (another not-yet raised) they're all literary figures. The scientists might complain. The Two Cultures and all that!
Despite the above, I think it's a nice idea, *IF* we don't depend on it for comprehension -- that is, have the name of the language in words, and a small thumbnail image to make the portal page a bit more interesting.
Further, I suggest we have several people for each language, and rotate them on a regular basis.
At any rate, have we agreed on the move from www. to en. ?
When writing on Phase II, I was thinking about little flags for the different languages. We'd just need a merged GB/US flag for en.wikipedia.com...
I don't like flags, and I guess many others also don't like them. If we really need some kind picture to represent a language, then please let's choose an image of a famous person who used this language to produce something important/famous/extraordinary/...
I don't like the idea of a "portal" page at all, and the idea of using flags is even worse; flags represent /countries/, and the very concept of "country" is something I want nothing to do with.
I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.
I don't see what's won with that - in most cases it would cost me quite some time to recognize a person, and I would therefore consider it a waste of space. Be that as it may, I think Goethe is the obvious choice for [de:], and Multatuli for [nl:]. With some more doubt, I would propose Dante for [it:], although I don't know whether there is any image of him. For [la:] I am doubting between Cicero and Julius Caesar, while for [eo:] Zamenhoff himself looks like an obvious choice. Maybe Tolstoy for [ru:]?
Andre Engels
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