I'd like to invite all parties to close this particular thread as it is devolving into a flamewar. I think no Chinese user is happy about being censored, and that is what matters for the case at hand. I apologize for partially igniting this flamewar by calling the Chinese government fascist. This is my personal belief, and it does not contribute usefully to the discussion.
Given Jimbo's clear statement on the matter, I hope we can all agree on the following two things:
1) The content on the Chinese Wikipedia will not be censored or edited in violation of NPOV. All sides to any issue are to be presented fairly and neutrally, with or without the threat of government censorship. Wikipedia's policies are not subject to change as a result of intimidation.
2) Editors of the Chinese Wikipedia will work with the responsible institutions to get the ban lifted under these conditions, and *only* under these conditions.
Now, if 2) fails, I hope we can talk about what other options we have. Actively aiding Chinese users to circumvent such censorship is, at least to me, not out of the question. But for the time being, I would suggest to Chinese Wikipedians to form an action group specifically for the purpose of dealing with the issue of government censorship cautiously.
Does such a group already exist? If not, perhaps we can help by setting up a mailing list for the purpose - if such a list is accessed through Hotmail etc., it should be available regardless of whether Wikipedia itself is censored. Alternatively, it could be set up on a third party server.
The important thing to remember is that we are all on the same side, that we believe in creating a neutral encyclopedia, and that we oppose censorship of our work. Let's take strength from our shared values instead of wasting time and energy on our personal and political differences.
WikiLove,
Erik
On 26 Sep 2004 07:31:00 +0200, Erik Moeller erik_moeller@gmx.de wrote:
- The content on the Chinese Wikipedia will not be censored or edited in
violation of NPOV. All sides to any issue are to be presented fairly and neutrally, with or without the threat of government censorship. Wikipedia's policies are not subject to change as a result of intimidation.
I believe that all Chinese Wikipedians will agree that we should *never* give up NPOV. In fact we have never discussed the possibility of violating this policy of Wikipedia in order to have the ban lifted.
Now, if 2) fails, I hope we can talk about what other options we have. Actively aiding Chinese users to circumvent such censorship is, at least to me, not out of the question. But for the time being, I would suggest to Chinese Wikipedians to form an action group specifically for the purpose of dealing with the issue of government censorship cautiously.
Shizhao and Mountain are working actively on the issue. Both of them live in Beijing and thus is easier to contact the authorities.
The important thing to remember is that we are all on the same side, that we believe in creating a neutral encyclopedia, and that we oppose censorship of our work. Let's take strength from our shared values instead of wasting time and energy on our personal and political differences.
I totally agree with you. But I *do not* like to be racially prejudiced. When someone said that Chinese *soldiers* (note that it is soldier, not the government) are robbers who were "tempted by wristwatches and ballpoint pens", and also "a Blackberry", it is a clear and obvious racial discrimination. I am not arguing about politics, but respect for my ethnic group. I have no intention of arguing with anybody about politics of my country, but this kind of attack-- insinuating my compariots are robbers--is not tolerable.
formulax
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