Hello everybody,
It's been now some time we are providing actual proof in support of a petition to close the Moldovan wikipedia.
However, it is obvious that something is wrong, because every single message of ours is simply buried under sequences of messages from Mark Williamson.
Moreover: - Our messages are sequences of facts that can be verified by anybody. Proof, in the scientific sense. - The edits of Mark have the sole goal of discreditating the opposed camp. No proof, just "their oppinion is biased, because they have a hidden agenda". The very definition of FUD.
Under these conditions, nobody says nothing! We are left here to exchange messages in an uncontrolled fashion, while the matter is really important.
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
Yours, [[:en:Dpotop]], [[:ro:Dpotop]]
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
So it's not OK for me to accuse you of FUD, but it's OK for you to accuse me?
I have presented plenty of proof. I am done arguing with you here about this.
The decision makers have left, as I said. They are no longer listening.
Mark
On 29/06/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
It's been now some time we are providing actual proof in support of a petition to close the Moldovan wikipedia.
However, it is obvious that something is wrong, because every single message of ours is simply buried under sequences of messages from Mark Williamson.
Moreover:
- Our messages are sequences of facts that can be verified by anybody. Proof, in the scientific sense.
- The edits of Mark have the sole goal of discreditating the opposed camp. No proof, just "their oppinion is biased, because they have a hidden agenda". The very definition of FUD.
Under these conditions, nobody says nothing! We are left here to exchange messages in an uncontrolled fashion, while the matter is really important.
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
Yours, [[:en:Dpotop]], [[:ro:Dpotop]]
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
I'm only saying that it is not normal that we are left here to quarrel. Even in a free country, a court of law is not an anarchic exchange of oppinions. There is a judge that: 1. lets the 2 parties expose their POV 2. asks questions 3. decides
We have been left at stage 1, which is not normal, but lets me express my personal oppinion (argumented) that you only spread FUD.
Dpotop
Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote: So it's not OK for me to accuse you of FUD, but it's OK for you to accuse me?
I have presented plenty of proof. I am done arguing with you here about this.
The decision makers have left, as I said. They are no longer listening.
Mark
On 29/06/06, Jacky PB wrote:
Hello everybody,
It's been now some time we are providing actual proof in support of a petition to close the Moldovan wikipedia.
However, it is obvious that something is wrong, because every single message of ours is simply buried under sequences of messages from Mark Williamson.
Moreover:
- Our messages are sequences of facts that can be verified by anybody. Proof, in the scientific sense.
- The edits of Mark have the sole goal of discreditating the opposed camp. No proof, just "their oppinion is biased, because they have a hidden agenda". The very definition of FUD.
Under these conditions, nobody says nothing! We are left here to exchange messages in an uncontrolled fashion, while the matter is really important.
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
Yours, [[:en:Dpotop]], [[:ro:Dpotop]]
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Yes, it is normal -- the decision was effectively already made.
Although the decision was originally to lock the Moldovan Wikipedia, it became clear that it was not an open-and-shut issue and so those in power decided the best course of action was to respect the status quo.
Obviously, they do not care to rehash the issue because it got so nasty the first time around.
Mark
On 30/06/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
I'm only saying that it is not normal that we are left here to quarrel. Even in a free country, a court of law is not an anarchic exchange of oppinions. There is a judge that:
- lets the 2 parties expose their POV
- asks questions
- decides
We have been left at stage 1, which is not normal, but lets me express my personal oppinion (argumented) that you only spread FUD.
Dpotop
Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote: So it's not OK for me to accuse you of FUD, but it's OK for you to accuse me?
I have presented plenty of proof. I am done arguing with you here about this.
The decision makers have left, as I said. They are no longer listening.
Mark
On 29/06/06, Jacky PB wrote:
Hello everybody,
It's been now some time we are providing actual proof in support of a petition to close the Moldovan wikipedia.
However, it is obvious that something is wrong, because every single message of ours is simply buried under sequences of messages from Mark Williamson.
Moreover:
- Our messages are sequences of facts that can be verified by anybody. Proof, in the scientific sense.
- The edits of Mark have the sole goal of discreditating the opposed camp. No proof, just "their oppinion is biased, because they have a hidden agenda". The very definition of FUD.
Under these conditions, nobody says nothing! We are left here to exchange messages in an uncontrolled fashion, while the matter is really important.
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
Yours, [[:en:Dpotop]], [[:ro:Dpotop]]
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanm� yo paske nou posede pw�p bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would mean wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. The safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Brion Vibber schrieb:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would mean wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. The safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Thank you Brion! This is the answer most of us can sign.
Don't know if this saying is the same in English, but I try to translate: live and let live ...
And I say: help where you can - if you cannot: do nothing. If something is not good enough to your opinion you need to help to make things better, not to make things worse ... . Have a great week-end!
Sabine
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
I do not want to make you write again on this issue.
I just wanted to note that people desiring to close, move or delete the Moldovan Wikipedia are not necessarily desiring to worsen. They are mostly trying to make things better. As these are quite wrong at the moment. In my opinion, of course.
What concerns "Vivi e lascia vivere", not all the proposed solutions are against this principle. For example, moving the entire mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would end all the confusion, would cease hurting Moldovan nationals' feelings, would cease Wikipedia-I being flooded by posts on this issue, and - most importantly - wouldn't hurt anyone. And would just make everyone involved breathe easily. If one day a community of Cyrillic Moldovan editors (either from Transnistria or from Moldova) arises, the Wikipedia will be right there and could flourish on the bases already set by Mark Williamson.
And personally, if this move takes place, I will seriously consider taking care about the quality of the articles present on the Moldovan Wikipedia. Otherwise, I would feel like doing the wrong thing.
Have a quiet week, Liviu
On 6/30/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Brion Vibber schrieb:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would mean
wasting
a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. The
safest
course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do
with
dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Thank you Brion! This is the answer most of us can sign.
Don't know if this saying is the same in English, but I try to translate: live and let live ...
And I say: help where you can - if you cannot: do nothing. If something is not good enough to your opinion you need to help to make things better, not to make things worse ... . Have a great week-end!
Sabine
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
LOLOL
would cease Wikipedia-I being flooded by posts on this issue,
Am I wrong, or we are getting blackmailed? We either do what they want or get flooded to death :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) FYI, there is a thing called spam filter. The adresses of the people flooding about the MO-RO issue were just dropped in it. This is my last email on the subject. Hope it's clear enough.
Bye Bèrto
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make a difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do not want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community. If this issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war that I personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those who can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create confusion and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free encyclopedia of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take and implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and impossible arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all over the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to do is use common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards and bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to adopt. I still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop deliberately ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons) are incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if no one else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three months time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would mean wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. The safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the more it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what they say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not relevant, refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and you are plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project. Everybody will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make a difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do not want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community. If this issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war that I personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those who can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create confusion and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free encyclopedia of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take and implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and impossible arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all over the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to do is use common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards and bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to adopt. I still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop deliberately ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons) are incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if no one else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three months time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would mean wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. The safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear in a one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move mo to mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the more it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what they say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not relevant, refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and you are plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project. Everybody will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make a difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do not want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this
junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I
agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community. If
this
issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible
Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war that
I
personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those
who
can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
confusion
and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
encyclopedia
of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take and
implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
impossible
arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all over the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to do is
use
common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards
and
bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to
adopt. I
still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
deliberately
ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons)
are
incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if no
one
else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three
months
time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would
mean
wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant.
The
safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear in a one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move mo to mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the more it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what they say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not relevant, refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and you are plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project. Everybody will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make a difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do not want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this
junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I
agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community. If
this
issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible
Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war that
I
personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those
who
can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
confusion
and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
encyclopedia
of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take and
implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
impossible
arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all over the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to do is
use
common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards
and
bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to
adopt. I
still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
deliberately
ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons)
are
incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if no
one
else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three
months
time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber brion@pobox.com wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would
mean
wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant.
The
safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as we do with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets out of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the more it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what they say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not relevant, refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and you
are
plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project. Everybody will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make
a
difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do
not
want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this
junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community.
If
this
issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war
that
I
personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
who
can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
confusion
and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
encyclopedia
of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take
and
implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
impossible
arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all
over
the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to
do is
use
common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
and
bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to
adopt. I
still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
deliberately
ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
are
incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if
no
one
else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
months
time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody
No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would
mean
wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
The
safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as
we do
with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets out of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the more it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what they say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not relevant, refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and you
are
plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project. Everybody will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can make
a
difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me. I do
not
want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all this
junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire community.
If
this
issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and Moldovan Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty war
that
I
personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
who
can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
confusion
and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
encyclopedia
of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to take
and
implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
impossible
arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and all
over
the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests to
do is
use
common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
and
bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance to
adopt. I
still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
deliberately
ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not cease re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
are
incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me - if
no
one
else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
months
time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote:
Jacky PB wrote:
> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody > No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved would
mean
wasting a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
The
safest course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same as
we do
with dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment * on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are
plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote:
I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a
difference.
IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not
want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
junk.
I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If
this
issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that
I
personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
who
can make a difference to just ignore?
Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create
confusion
and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free
encyclopedia
of the highest possible quality"?
Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and
implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and
impossible
arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over
the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is
use
common sense to decide on this issue.
It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
and
bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented.
But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
adopt. I
still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop
deliberately
ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
are
incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no
one
else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
months
time.
If you managed to read till this point, thank you.
Liviu
On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote:
> Jacky PB wrote: > >> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >> > No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
mean
> wasting > a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
The
> safest > course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do
> with > dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. > > -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l > > > > >
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi, You do not get it.
It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are
plain wrong.
The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right.
Thanks, GerardM
Liviu Andronic wrote: > I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a
> difference. > > IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not
> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
junk. > > I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If
this > issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
> > Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that
I > personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
who > can make a difference to just ignore? > > Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create confusion > and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free encyclopedia > of the highest possible quality"? > > Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and
> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and impossible > arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over
> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is
use > common sense to decide on this issue. > > It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
and > bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. > > But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
adopt. I > still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop deliberately > ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
are > incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no
one > else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
months > time. > > If you managed to read till this point, thank you. > > Liviu > > On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: > >> Jacky PB wrote: >> >>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>> >> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
mean >> wasting >> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
The >> safest >> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do
>> with >> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >> >> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikipedia-l mailing list >> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >> >> >> >> >> > > >
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it when they are officially being persecuted. At least that is what the article said. As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script. Now it probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the exclusion of the Latin based script.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > You do not get it. > > It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan > wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; > attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this > attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just > evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are
> plain wrong. > > The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right. > > Thanks, > GerardM > > > Liviu Andronic wrote: >> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a
>> difference. >> >> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not
>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
> junk. >> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If
> this >> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that
> I >> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
> who >> can make a difference to just ignore? >> >> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create > confusion >> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free > encyclopedia >> of the highest possible quality"? >> >> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and
>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and > impossible >> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over
>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is
> use >> common sense to decide on this issue. >> >> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
> and >> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. >> >> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
> adopt. I >> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop > deliberately >> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
> are >> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no
> one >> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
> months >> time. >> >> If you managed to read till this point, thank you. >> >> Liviu >> >> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> Jacky PB wrote: >>> >>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>>> >>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
> mean >>> wasting >>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
> The >>> safest >>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do
>>> with >>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >>> >>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikipedia-l mailing list >>> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Now... I live in Kiev, I am NOT ethnically russian, slavian or whatever, and I could not care less for anyone's national feelings. Actually I suppose the NPOV policy should simply BAN anyone even just mentioning them as a decision criteria. If politics are allowed to be a decision criteria, then you can expect a LOT of such quarrels coming up. We all have political opinions, and I cannot think of any country in in this planet that has never had pretty good reasons for them to feel offended by (at the very least) some of their neighbouring peoples, religions, cultures, scripts, miniskirts, trolleybuses, etc. Do you want to open this pandora's box? Go on. Only pls rename this list into Wikipedia-h (H is for hooligans), because that's what it's going to be.
So... living here I meet a number of moldavian (not transdnistrian) residents on the net. Bear in mind, I say *residents* because I simply do not give a damn about their blood, religion, DNA, etc. And I believe that nobody should. This people speak BOTH russian and moldavian. Since my use of rumenian languages is limited (I speak IT-4, which is enough to read most RO, but definitely not enough to write even just at RO-1), I usually use my RU-3 with them. And it works perfectly. Now, RU-3 happens to be written in cyrillic and so are most of their answers, too (just a small number of them using a latin transliteration). Which in turn means that they either use a russian interface or type by some sort of charmap.
I read enough *weird* reports about Ukraine at the time of the "orange revolution" to know how western journalists that come here should be valued. It really depends on which side of the conflict buys them sex partners, wine etc. In the most honest cases they sincerely believe to what their translators tell them, but simply do not have any way for them to check anything of what they are told. Such western reports have supported all possible conflicting sides in regional hot spots in the recent past, mostly because of this. So I'm really asking myself whether the press should be used as a source, when contemporary politics are even remotely a part of the issue. Reality is usually much wider and more complex than the canonic 8.000 symbols a redactor is giving to his journalists for them to describe an event.
I don't mean to offend BBC's reputation, actually they are one of my favourite and most reliable news sources. I simply wonder whether the news *as such* can be used to make a decision at all, no matter what the source. After some 6 years in eastern Europe I came to understand that most of what we think of it is simply absurd. It is actually impossible to judge a foreign culture unless you dont' spend *many* years in it.
From all practical POVs, moldavians of all kinds do know cyrillic scripting.
This is because of the trade they have with Ukraine and Russia, that are ONLY using cyrillic script(s). The situation will only get to a further integration into using cyrillic once Rumenia steps in the EU and more strict border checking between Rumenia and Moldavia will be in place. Many moldavian products already bear mixed latin/cyrillic labels for them to be easily exported here (wine, mainly). The most world wide known moldavian band (Zdub si zdob, I believe BTW, they are GREAT) made a fortune by singing (also) russian songs and maintains an internet site in both russian and moldavian. So it's simply absurd to claim that one of the two scripts (no matter which one) could be unknown to the locals, who definitely have much more urgent life problems than writing a wiki, but undoubtedly do trade and listen to the radio.
Choosing a script or another is mainly a thing at official level, a thing dealing with politics only. In reality, people will simply use them both, no matter what the local war games end up in deciding, because BOTH are needed in practical and economical life, and even the most radical guys need money to make a living. Same applies to the (many) rumenian minorities in Ukraine.
From a practical POV having a latin script is nice for bringing people
closer to the undisputable source of the rumenian culture, that is Rumenia. But on the other hand there are many minorities in Ukraine that never really had a formal instruction in the latin script (and probably never will), but still speak some rumenian dialect. And the only script they can manage is ukrainian and russian cyrillic.
My fivepence worth, because I got to understand that most people in here simply does not know what the issue is about. And as long as we deal with facts and information on cold NPOV basis I am happy to help. IMHO the sooner we manage to detach geopolitics from languages, and get to speak about content accessibility in instead, the better we will work.
Bèrto
----- Исходное сообщение ----- От: "ScottL" scott@mu.org Кому: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Отправлено: 4 июля 2006 г. 15:07 Тема: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Where are the decision makers?
From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it when they are officially being persecuted. At least that is what the article said. As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script. Now it probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the exclusion of the Latin based script.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe
comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try
to
discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't
use
this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current
votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_o f_Moldovan_Wikipediaon
meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > You do not get it. > > It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan > wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; > attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this > attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just > evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are
> plain wrong. > > The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right. > > Thanks, > GerardM > > > Liviu Andronic wrote: >> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a
>> difference. >> >> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not
>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
> junk. >> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If
> this >> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that
> I >> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
> who >> can make a difference to just ignore? >> >> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create > confusion >> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free > encyclopedia >> of the highest possible quality"? >> >> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and
>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and > impossible >> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over
>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is
> use >> common sense to decide on this issue. >> >> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
> and >> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. >> >> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
> adopt. I >> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop > deliberately >> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
> are >> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no
> one >> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
> months >> time. >> >> If you managed to read till this point, thank you. >> >> Liviu >> >> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> Jacky PB wrote: >>> >>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>>> >>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
> mean >>> wasting >>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
> The >>> safest >>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do
>>> with >>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >>> >>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikipedia-l mailing list >>> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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I fully subscribe to the analysis of Berto. And I mean *fully*.
And given this analysis, the question you should ask yourselves is: Are there *any* Moldovans interested in this cyrillic script here on wikipedia?
If not, this non-partisan analysis tells us that mo.wikipedia is just another political tool in a dirty war.
:en:Dpotop
--- Berto albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Now... I live in Kiev, I am NOT ethnically russian, slavian or whatever, and I could not care less for anyone's national feelings. Actually I suppose the NPOV policy should simply BAN anyone even just mentioning them as a decision criteria. If politics are allowed to be a decision criteria, then you can expect a LOT of such quarrels coming up. We all have political opinions, and I cannot think of any country in in this planet that has never had pretty good reasons for them to feel offended by (at the very least) some of their neighbouring peoples, religions, cultures, scripts, miniskirts, trolleybuses, etc. Do you want to open this pandora's box? Go on. Only pls rename this list into Wikipedia-h (H is for hooligans), because that's what it's going to be.
So... living here I meet a number of moldavian (not transdnistrian) residents on the net. Bear in mind, I say *residents* because I simply do not give a damn about their blood, religion, DNA, etc. And I believe that nobody should. This people speak BOTH russian and moldavian. Since my use of rumenian languages is limited (I speak IT-4, which is enough to read most RO, but definitely not enough to write even just at RO-1), I usually use my RU-3 with them. And it works perfectly. Now, RU-3 happens to be written in cyrillic and so are most of their answers, too (just a small number of them using a latin transliteration). Which in turn means that they either use a russian interface or type by some sort of charmap.
I read enough *weird* reports about Ukraine at the time of the "orange revolution" to know how western journalists that come here should be valued. It really depends on which side of the conflict buys them sex partners, wine etc. In the most honest cases they sincerely believe to what their translators tell them, but simply do not have any way for them to check anything of what they are told. Such western reports have supported all possible conflicting sides in regional hot spots in the recent past, mostly because of this. So I'm really asking myself whether the press should be used as a source, when contemporary politics are even remotely a part of the issue. Reality is usually much wider and more complex than the canonic 8.000 symbols a redactor is giving to his journalists for them to describe an event.
I don't mean to offend BBC's reputation, actually they are one of my favourite and most reliable news sources. I simply wonder whether the news *as such* can be used to make a decision at all, no matter what the source. After some 6 years in eastern Europe I came to understand that most of what we think of it is simply absurd. It is actually impossible to judge a foreign culture unless you dont' spend *many* years in it.
From all practical POVs, moldavians of all kinds do know cyrillic scripting. This is because of the trade they have with Ukraine and Russia, that are ONLY using cyrillic script(s). The situation will only get to a further integration into using cyrillic once Rumenia steps in the EU and more strict border checking between Rumenia and Moldavia will be in place. Many moldavian products already bear mixed latin/cyrillic labels for them to be easily exported here (wine, mainly). The most world wide known moldavian band (Zdub si zdob, I believe BTW, they are GREAT) made a fortune by singing (also) russian songs and maintains an internet site in both russian and moldavian. So it's simply absurd to claim that one of the two scripts (no matter which one) could be unknown to the locals, who definitely have much more urgent life problems than writing a wiki, but undoubtedly do trade and listen to the radio.
Choosing a script or another is mainly a thing at official level, a thing dealing with politics only. In reality, people will simply use them both, no matter what the local war games end up in deciding, because BOTH are needed in practical and economical life, and even the most radical guys need money to make a living. Same applies to the (many) rumenian minorities in Ukraine. From a practical POV having a latin script is nice for bringing people closer to the undisputable source of the rumenian culture, that is Rumenia. But on the other hand there are many minorities in Ukraine that never really had a formal instruction in the latin script (and probably never will), but still speak some rumenian dialect. And the only script they can manage is ukrainian and russian cyrillic.
My fivepence worth, because I got to understand that most people in here simply does not know what the issue is about. And as long as we deal with facts and information on cold NPOV basis I am happy to help. IMHO the sooner we manage to detach geopolitics from languages, and get to speak about content accessibility in instead, the better we will work.
Bèrto
----- ÐÑÑ Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð¾Ðµ ÑообÑение ----- ÐÑ: "ScottL" scott@mu.org ÐомÑ: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org ÐÑпÑавлено: 4 иÑÐ»Ñ 2006 г. 15:07 Тема: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Where are the decision makers?
From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it when they are officially being persecuted. At least that is what the article said. As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script. Now it probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the exclusion of the Latin based script.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody
wants to know about
the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever
language they speak
article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In
schools east of the
Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic
alphabet is taught.
This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it.
This is the usual
script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial
integrity of
Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that
Moldova is, in fact, a
biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because
it violates conventions.
Mark
=== message truncated ===
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Jacky,
just for me to be clear on a few details about the "native speaker" issue: pls answer just yes/no to 1) then follow the instructions. 1) you mean a special policy for MO-only should be inforced? (yes/no) 2) if you answered no to 1), could you please tell me where are we going to find the native speakers that would justify the existence of a latin wikipedia? (just a nation name here, they must be "natives", that is, born in families were ancient latin is spoken as a first language) 3) if answered yes to 1), can you quote *any* contemporary law, in which a punitive measure is said to apply to *only* one person/institution? (country, law code, article name, comma)
Answer to this and we shall finally have some real data stated.
I fully subscribe to the analysis of Berto. And I mean *fully*.
Thanks, I take your word on it. :) My analysis also called for an immediate ban of everybody just even mentioning "national feelings" as a decision making criteria. So that means you agree on that, too. Now, will you please reread the whole thread and tell me how many people from BOTH sides should have their IPs banned forever, according to the proposal you just kindly supported? Pls also state who was the author of the "violation" and cut and paste the relevant text, so you and I can copy the Board with the result and ask disciplinary measures to be enforced ASAP. I'd love people from both sides to join this call, seriously. It would show that excess is not a rule for both editions.
Not that I am seriously expecting this to happen... It would take a braveness and constructive aim that I don't really see in *any* point of this discussion. You know what will happen? You all will either a) start to polemise with me and to figure out that I am some sort of "awful enemy". Or b) you will simply tell me that I am right once again, then you'll go on fighting each other as nothing ever happened.
Wanna bet some money? :) You can pay with western-union :) Say 100 euro for a start? :))))))))))) Bèrto
----- Исходное сообщение ----- От: "Jacky PB" dpotop1@yahoo.com Кому: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Отправлено: 4 июля 2006 г. 16:56 Тема: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Apropos:moldovia
And given this analysis, the question you should ask yourselves is: Are there *any* Moldovans interested in this cyrillic script here on wikipedia?
If not, this non-partisan analysis tells us that mo.wikipedia is just another political tool in a dirty war.
:en:Dpotop
--- Berto albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Now... I live in Kiev, I am NOT ethnically russian, slavian or whatever, and I could not care less for anyone's national feelings. Actually I suppose the NPOV policy should simply BAN anyone even just mentioning them as a decision criteria. If politics are allowed to be a decision criteria, then you can expect a LOT of such quarrels coming up. We all have political opinions, and I cannot think of any country in in this planet that has never had pretty good reasons for them to feel offended by (at the very least) some of their neighbouring peoples, religions, cultures, scripts, miniskirts, trolleybuses, etc. Do you want to open this pandora's box? Go on. Only pls rename this list into Wikipedia-h (H is for hooligans), because that's what it's going to be.
So... living here I meet a number of moldavian (not transdnistrian) residents on the net. Bear in mind, I say *residents* because I simply do not give a damn about their blood, religion, DNA, etc. And I believe that nobody should. This people speak BOTH russian and moldavian. Since my use of rumenian languages is limited (I speak IT-4, which is enough to read most RO, but definitely not enough to write even just at RO-1), I usually use my RU-3 with them. And it works perfectly. Now, RU-3 happens to be written in cyrillic and so are most of their answers, too (just a small number of them using a latin transliteration). Which in turn means that they either use a russian interface or type by some sort of charmap.
I read enough *weird* reports about Ukraine at the time of the "orange revolution" to know how western journalists that come here should be valued. It really depends on which side of the conflict buys them sex partners, wine etc. In the most honest cases they sincerely believe to what their translators tell them, but simply do not have any way for them to check anything of what they are told. Such western reports have supported all possible conflicting sides in regional hot spots in the recent past, mostly because of this. So I'm really asking myself whether the press should be used as a source, when contemporary politics are even remotely a part of the issue. Reality is usually much wider and more complex than the canonic 8.000 symbols a redactor is giving to his journalists for them to describe an event.
I don't mean to offend BBC's reputation, actually they are one of my favourite and most reliable news sources. I simply wonder whether the news *as such* can be used to make a decision at all, no matter what the source. After some 6 years in eastern Europe I came to understand that most of what we think of it is simply absurd. It is actually impossible to judge a foreign culture unless you dont' spend *many* years in it.
From all practical POVs, moldavians of all kinds do know cyrillic scripting. This is because of the trade they have with Ukraine and Russia, that are ONLY using cyrillic script(s). The situation will only get to a further integration into using cyrillic once Rumenia steps in the EU and more strict border checking between Rumenia and Moldavia will be in place. Many moldavian products already bear mixed latin/cyrillic labels for them to be easily exported here (wine, mainly). The most world wide known moldavian band (Zdub si zdob, I believe BTW, they are GREAT) made a fortune by singing (also) russian songs and maintains an internet site in both russian and moldavian. So it's simply absurd to claim that one of the two scripts (no matter which one) could be unknown to the locals, who definitely have much more urgent life problems than writing a wiki, but undoubtedly do trade and listen to the radio.
Choosing a script or another is mainly a thing at official level, a thing dealing with politics only. In reality, people will simply use them both, no matter what the local war games end up in deciding, because BOTH are needed in practical and economical life, and even the most radical guys need money to make a living. Same applies to the (many) rumenian minorities in Ukraine. From a practical POV having a latin script is nice for bringing people closer to the undisputable source of the rumenian culture, that is Rumenia. But on the other hand there are many minorities in Ukraine that never really had a formal instruction in the latin script (and probably never will), but still speak some rumenian dialect. And the only script they can manage is ukrainian and russian cyrillic.
My fivepence worth, because I got to understand that most people in here simply does not know what the issue is about. And as long as we deal with facts and information on cold NPOV basis I am happy to help. IMHO the sooner we manage to detach geopolitics from languages, and get to speak about content accessibility in instead, the better we will work.
Bèrto
----- Ð~ÑÑ.одное ÑообÑ?ение ----- ÐzÑ,: "ScottL" scott@mu.org ÐsомÑf: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org ÐzÑ,пÑ?авлено: 4 иÑZÐ»Ñ 2006 г. 15:07 Тема: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Where are the decision makers?
From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it when they are officially being persecuted. At least that is what the article said. As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script. Now it probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the exclusion of the Latin based script.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody
wants to know about
the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever
language they speak
article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In
schools east of the
Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic
alphabet is taught.
This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it.
This is the usual
script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial
integrity of
Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that
Moldova is, in fact, a
biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because
it violates conventions.
Mark
=== message truncated ===
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Hi again,
sorry for getting out of the script war and talking business in instead. I am currently compiling an article on the Bronze Age for pms.wiki. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age I have a wonderful pic of rumenian B.A. findings, but NO info about the rumenian Bronze age. Can any of you help me?
Bèrto
This site: http://domino.kappa.ro/guvern/istoria-e.html has some good information about Romanian history in general and it does discuss the bronze age.
Berto albertoserra@ukr.net wrote: Hi again,
sorry for getting out of the script war and talking business in instead. I am currently compiling an article on the Bronze Age for pms.wiki. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age I have a wonderful pic of rumenian B.A. findings, but NO info about the rumenian Bronze age. Can any of you help me?
Bèrto
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Thanks! :
----- Исходное сообщение ----- От: "TSO1D From Wikpedia" tso1d@yahoo.com Кому: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Отправлено: 4 июля 2006 г. 20:49 Тема: Re: [Wikipedia-l] MO-RO, a request for help
This site: http://domino.kappa.ro/guvern/istoria-e.html has some good information about Romanian history in general and it does discuss the bronze age.
Berto albertoserra@ukr.net wrote: Hi again,
sorry for getting out of the script war and talking business in instead. I am currently compiling an article on the Bronze Age for pms.wiki. Here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age I have a wonderful pic of rumenian B.A. findings, but NO info about the rumenian Bronze age. Can any of you help me?
Bèrto
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This isn't totally accurate.
There are Latin-script schools, and Cyrillic-script schools.
A couple years back, the Latin-script schools were all closed by the government; they were reopened a while later but as private schools.
Currently, at least it seems, there are more students studying in Cyrillic than in Latin. This may be because space is limited at Latin schools, which are funded mostly by the Republic of Moldova and foreign charities; there are also Russian-Moldovan bilingual schools, all of which use Cyrillic script. Some parents would send their kids to these schools because of the perceived economic advantage Russian will give them.
Mark
On 04/07/06, ScottL scott@mu.org wrote:
From the BBC article posted way way back on this thread it appears that the schools for ethnically Moldavian children in Transdniester actually use the Latin script if they can, and some times they do it when they are officially being persecuted. At least that is what the article said. As far as I can tell the (non-moldavian speaking) people in power are trying (unsuccessfully) to impose this script. Now it probably is likely older people in the region still use it and its probably in public use but I am not sure you can say that its in many schools. At least not to a point where students are learning it to the exclusion of the Latin based script.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a > one-two year time. > > What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
> mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy. > > Is this so difficult? > > On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hoi, >> You do not get it. >> >> It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan >> wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; >> attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
>> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
>> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this >> attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
>> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just >> evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are >> plain wrong. >> >> The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
>> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right. >> >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> >> Liviu Andronic wrote: >>> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a >>> difference. >>> >>> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not >>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
>> junk. >>> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I >>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant >>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If >> this >>> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible >>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
>>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem. >>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that >> I >>> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those >> who >>> can make a difference to just ignore? >>> >>> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create >> confusion >>> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free >> encyclopedia >>> of the highest possible quality"? >>> >>> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and >>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and >> impossible >>> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over >>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is >> use >>> common sense to decide on this issue. >>> >>> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards >> and >>> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. >>> >>> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
>> adopt. I >>> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop >> deliberately >>> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
>>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire >>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons) >> are >>> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no >> one >>> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three >> months >>> time. >>> >>> If you managed to read till this point, thank you. >>> >>> Liviu >>> >>> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jacky PB wrote: >>>> >>>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>>>> >>>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
>> mean >>>> wasting >>>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. >> The >>>> safest >>>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do >>>> with >>>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >>>> >>>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list >>>> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikipedia-l mailing list >> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >> > > > -- > Liviu > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >
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Ok, that is an acceptable answer though again I still think we are talking about a really really small group (according to [[Transnistria]], there are 177k RO/MO people in Transnistria of which only some are going to be school age and only some of those not going to Latin scripted schools).
Though Sabine does make a valid point that most of them (the ones in Moldova proper as well) probably can sound out words in any language written using Cyrillic and a large number also are likely to know Russian. To me the more interesting question is how many of them know the RO/MO language in Cyrillic to the exclusion of Latin and are likely to have access to a computer with Internet access.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a
one-two year time.
What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy.
Is this so difficult?
On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > You do not get it. > > It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan > wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; > attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this > attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just > evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are
> plain wrong. > > The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right. > > Thanks, > GerardM > > > Liviu Andronic wrote: >> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a
>> difference. >> >> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not
>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
> junk. >> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an
issue. I
>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an
unimportant
>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If
> this >> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all
possible
>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a
problem.
>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that
> I >> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for
those
> who >> can make a difference to just ignore? >> >> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create > confusion >> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free > encyclopedia >> of the highest possible quality"? >> >> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and
>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and > impossible >> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over
>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is
> use >> common sense to decide on this issue. >> >> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by
stewards
> and >> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. >> >> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
> adopt. I >> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop > deliberately >> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an
entire
>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million
persons)
> are >> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no
> one >> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a
two-three
> months >> time. >> >> If you managed to read till this point, thank you. >> >> Liviu >> >> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: >> >>> Jacky PB wrote: >>> >>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>>> >>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
> mean >>> wasting >>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something
unimportant.
> The >>> safest >>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do
>>> with >>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >>> >>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikipedia-l mailing list >>> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Refije dirije lanmè yo paske nou posede pwòp bato. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Why would it just be those of school age?
Anyone, in all of Moldova, educated prior to 1989 would have learnt Cyrillic; accordingly, the majority of people speaking Moldovan in Transnistria were brought up with Cyrillic -- 100% of them prior to 1991 or so.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of ethnic Moldovans in Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, who may not have been educated in their language, but can speak it, and have learnt literacy in a language such as Russian which uses Cyrillic.
Now, whether or not anyone knows one _to the exclusion of the other_ is more complicated.
Anyone in Moldova older than 25 knows Cyrillic; in large towns and cities such as Chisinau, everybody knows Cyrillic due to the strong presence of Russian.
Everyone in Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus also knows Cyrillic. However, it's probable that most of these people also know Latin. I don't think there are many people in these countries who know one script to the exclusion of the other, so it is a matter of which they use more often and of their preferences.
In Transnistria, this is likely to be Cyrillic for the majority (keep in mind that actually the majority Moldovans in Transnistria choose to send their kids to Russian school); in Ukraine, it may depend on the region; in Russia I am guessing most would prefer Cyrillic unless they are very recent immigrants from Moldova.
Mark
On 04/07/06, ScottL scott@mu.org wrote:
Ok, that is an acceptable answer though again I still think we are talking about a really really small group (according to [[Transnistria]], there are 177k RO/MO people in Transnistria of which only some are going to be school age and only some of those not going to Latin scripted schools).
Though Sabine does make a valid point that most of them (the ones in Moldova proper as well) probably can sound out words in any language written using Cyrillic and a large number also are likely to know Russian. To me the more interesting question is how many of them know the RO/MO language in Cyrillic to the exclusion of Latin and are likely to have access to a computer with Internet access.
SKL
Mark Williamson wrote:
It incorrectly represents Moldova? Come on!
Wikipedia uses language as a MEDIUM. If somebody wants to know about the language, they would go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language or http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldau or whichever language they speak article.
They will NOT go to mo.wikipedia.
And you are clearly not in touch with reality. In schools east of the Dniestr river, which teach Moldovan, the Cyrillic alphabet is taught. This fact is a fact and you cannot contest it. This is the usual script.
Now, unless you want to challenge the territorial integrity of Moldova, it seems reasonable to accept that Moldova is, in fact, a biscriptal nation.
As Gerard noted, mo-cyr is not acceptable because it violates conventions.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
This is what would reasonably happen, Mark. In my opinion, of course.
Currently people "give a damn" because it represents incorreclty Moldova. Personally, I cannot stand when my country is represented n'*importe comment
- on Wikipedia.
We don't use this writing, Mark. Apart from exceptions, nowhere. This writing, for all areas of life, is a reality of the past. And do not try to discredit my words stating that "he is not in Moldova". I lived my whole life in Moldova, which makes, roughly, 20 years. I read news. I return to Moldova at least one time per year. I know what happens there. We don't use this writing. Other Moldovans that are currently in Moldova could easily backup this.
If you want to write articles, I have nothing against it. Moving all you have done on mo.wikipedia.org to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org would in no way interrupt your work. And your work would cease disturbing people concerned.
But enough on this. Let's see the way the current votehttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#Closure_of_Moldovan_Wikipediaon meta ends.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Is that a threat?
Why should anyone "give a damn" now? What reason is there for people to not just ignore it and work on the Romanian Wikipedia? Really, there is no good reason. Any good Wikipedian should focus on fixing articles, writing new articles, etc., instead of fussing about something like this.
I just want to write articles, but you and your friends insist on interrupting.
Mark
On 04/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
Everyone will start ignoring it, as soon as the Moldovan Wikipedia gets
out
of the mo.wikipedia.org domain. No one would give a damn about it.
On 7/4/06, Mark Williamson <node.ue@gmail.com > wrote:
Would it really make everyone happy?
No.
There would still be people whinging endlessly that it should be closed and/or deleted.
Mark
On 03/07/06, Liviu Andronic < landronimirc@gmail.com> wrote: > I agree that simple ignoring of this project would make it disappear
in
a > one-two year time. > > What the you do not get is that there is one simple solution: move
mo to
> mo-cyr. And everyone gets happy. > > Is this so difficult? > > On 7/2/06, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hoi, >> You do not get it. >> >> It is an annoyance. One of the points made is that the Moldovan >> wikipedia is just trolling. Consider what makes a troll thrive; >> attention. The more attention that you give it, ANY attention the
more
>> it will get entrenched. There is this saying: "I do not care what
they
>> say about me as long as they write my name correctly", all this >> attention makes the mo.wikipedia "relevant". If it is not
relevant,
>> refrain from giving it attention and at some time it will just >> evaporate. If it does not, it cannot be considered trolling and
you
are >> plain wrong. >> >> The best thing for you to do: shut up. Ignore this project.
Everybody
>> will be happier and maybe you will be proven to be right. >> >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> >> Liviu Andronic wrote: >>> I would have to object to the position taken by people who can
make
a >>> difference. >>> >>> IMHO, all this Moldovan issue annoys you as much as it does me.
I do
not >>> want to dispute on this, as much as you do not want to read all
this
>> junk. >>> I am wondering if the Moldovan Wikipedia is such unimportant an issue. I >>> agree that it is a rarely used Wikipedia. And still, for an unimportant >>> Wikipedia, it does create a lot of headache to the entire
community.
If >> this >>> issue flames every three months on this mailing list and on all possible >>> Talk pages and triggers revert-wars on related English and
Moldovan
>>> Wikipedia articles, then I believe that there is obviously a problem. >>> Not that this entire dispute be fair or ethical - it is a dirty
war
that >> I >>> personally detest -, but is it an ethically correct position for those >> who >>> can make a difference to just ignore? >>> >>> Is it so unimportant that a whole Wikipedia section could create >> confusion >>> and desinformation? Isn't Wikipedia supposed to provide a "free >> encyclopedia >>> of the highest possible quality"? >>> >>> Personally for me, it is strange how people with the ability to
take
and >>> implement a decision, simply choose to ignore. All possible and >> impossible >>> arguments were already presented here, on the mailing list, and
all
over >>> the English and Moldovan Wikipedia, and on Metawiki. What rests
to
do is >> use >>> common sense to decide on this issue. >>> >>> It is even stranger for me the way a decision already taken by stewards >> and >>> bureaucrats was simply ignored and not implemented. >>> >>> But, then, it is up to the decision-makers to decide the stance
to
>> adopt. I >>> still hope that they will choose as soon as possible to stop >> deliberately >>> ignoring this issue. The problem is that this issue will not
cease
>>> re-appearing on this mailing-list. My reason for this is that an entire >>> country and population (this makes an approximate 3.5 million persons) >> are >>> incorrectly represented on Wikipedia. And one of these, or me -
if
no >> one >>> else does it -, will certainly re-open this discussion in a two-three >> months >>> time. >>> >>> If you managed to read till this point, thank you. >>> >>> Liviu >>> >>> On 6/30/06, Brion Vibber < brion@pobox.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Jacky PB wrote: >>>> >>>>> Where are the decision makers? Isn't there nobody >>>>> >>>> No one else is interested in this issue, and getting involved
would
>> mean >>>> wasting >>>> a lot of time with people fighting a lot over something unimportant. >> The >>>> safest >>>> course is thus to leave a rarely-used wiki sitting there, same
as
we do >>>> with >>>> dozens of other rarely-used wikis and nobody minds. >>>> >>>> -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikipedia-l mailing list >>>> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikipedia-l mailing list >> Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org >> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >> > > > -- > Liviu > _______________________________________________ > Wikipedia-l mailing list > Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l >
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