There is a new initiative regarding software patents with the name "Thank you, Poland!" at http://www.thankpoland.info . There are banners you can use at http://www.thankpoland.info/banners.html . RMS' FSF/GNU already supports the initiative by displaying a banner at http://www.gnu.org . My site also supports "Thank you, Poland!". I suggest that you should also do that, by placing their banner on your main page.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
NSK wrote:
There is a new initiative regarding software patents with the name "Thank you, Poland!" at http://www.thankpoland.info . There are banners you can use at http://www.thankpoland.info/banners.html . RMS' FSF/GNU already supports the initiative by displaying a banner at http://www.gnu.org . My site also supports "Thank you, Poland!". I suggest that you should also do that, by placing their banner on your main page.
Hello,
I personally like the idea, I even proposed to put a "get firefox" icon on every page :o)
One trouble is that we need NPOV and this is maybe too european centric.
cheers,
- -- Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/ Servers in trouble ? noc (at) wikimedia (dot) org
On Saturday 15 January 2005 17:43, Ashar Voultoiz wrote:
I personally like the idea, I even proposed to put a "get firefox" icon on every page :o)
I suggest to have a poll on thankpoland and firefox.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . till we *) . . .
Hi Ashar,
we had the same debate about the FFII campaign against software patents in general. ("Thank you, Poland!" in a way is the result of this campaign).
I can think of two maybe good ways to work around the POV probleme with banners like this one:
- make decision about banners part of the skins/themes, so one could select the "GNU EFF theme" including such banners (or the "Corporate World theme", for the other side).
- Don't use the banner, but point out in our article about [[Wikipedia]] (and in some articles in the Wikipedia:namespace) how Wikipedia is using open source software and how this is only possible without corporate software patents. And of course: have a good article about [[Software Patent]]s and explain there the "Thank you, Poland!" banner (I haven't looked how it looks at the moment).
Till
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
NSK wrote:
There is a new initiative regarding software patents with the name "Thank you, Poland!" at http://www.thankpoland.info . There are banners you can use at http://www.thankpoland.info/banners.h tml . RMS' FSF/GNU already supports the initiative by displaying a banner at http://www.gnu.org . My site also supports "Thank you, Poland!". I suggest that you should also do that, by placing their banner on your main page.
Hello,
I personally like the idea, I even proposed to put a "get firefox" icon on every page :o)
One trouble is that we need NPOV and this is maybe too european centric.
cheers,
Ashar Voultoiz - WP++++ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hashar http://www.livejournal.com/community/wikitech/ Servers in trouble ? noc (at) wikimedia (dot) org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFB6ToepmyHQ2O4INERAsyCAJ4k8Lt99REYatB05surTGCYT94qhgCg7vnR bm4lFGUCFABYPs2UuiMokc0= =rXry -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__ . / / / / ... Till Westermayer - till we *) . . . mailto:till@tillwe.de . www.westermayer.de/till/ . icq 320393072 . Hirschstraße 5. 79100 Freiburg . 0761 55697152 . 0160 96619179 . . . . .
N> There is a new initiative regarding software patents with the name "Thank you, N> Poland!" at http://www.thankpoland.info . There are banners you can use at N> http://www.thankpoland.info/banners.html . RMS' FSF/GNU already supports the N> initiative by displaying a banner at http://www.gnu.org . My site also N> supports "Thank you, Poland!". I suggest that you should also do that, by N> placing their banner on your main page.
Have you heard of [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]]?
On Saturday 15 January 2005 19:07, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Have you heard of [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]]?
How is NPOV applied on this issue?
Have you heard of [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]]?
N> How is NPOV applied on this issue?
Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 11:04:16PM +0100, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Have you heard of [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]]?
N> How is NPOV applied on this issue? Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
Nearly everything is POV then. According to a survey led by the European Comission itself, 98.5% of developers who participated think software patents are bad.
But I agree it's not appropriate to put the Thank you poland letter on Wikipedia, the reason being rather that Wikipedia shouldn't participate in political issues than (N)POV
With Regards, Hynek
DEVELOPERS perhaps, but what about execs of software companies raking in gazillions a year from software patents?
Also, while there may be no specific rule regarding POV displays outside of articles, I do think we should try to limit ourselves to things that will not be disputed by any Wikipedians. Thus, I will not advocate to put up a site notice with my views if you don't do the same thing for your views (although I don't like software patents either).
Mark
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:03:09 +0100, Hynek Hanke hanke@brailcom.org wrote:
On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 11:04:16PM +0100, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Have you heard of [[Wikipedia:NPOV|NPOV]]?
N> How is NPOV applied on this issue? Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
Nearly everything is POV then. According to a survey led by the European Comission itself, 98.5% of developers who participated think software patents are bad.
But I agree it's not appropriate to put the Thank you poland letter on Wikipedia, the reason being rather that Wikipedia shouldn't participate in political issues than (N)POV
With Regards, Hynek
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Sunday 16 January 2005 00:03, Hynek Hanke wrote:
Wikipedia shouldn't participate in political issues
Pericles, Athenian statesman and politician, 495-425ac, said:
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you"
"Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it."
http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/pericles/
On Sunday 16 January 2005 00:04, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
Not saying that software patents are bad is a POV.
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:52:19 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Sunday 16 January 2005 00:04, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
Not saying that software patents are bad is a POV.
No, saying that software patents *aren't* bad is a POV; not saying either is an *omission*; saying that there are people who believe both is NPOV.
If there were no article stating the case against software patents, *but there was one mentionning their advantages*, that would constitute a POV by omission.
But if not putting something *on the main page* constitutes declaring a POV for one side of the argument (which side?), then we're putting out a lot of points of view right now, because I don't see every debate in the world mentionned on Wikipedia's front page. [I wonder which side of the abortion debate we're supporting by advertising neither the "Right to life" nor the "Right to choose"...]
OK, so this is all a bit pedantic, but given that Wikimedia *isn't* a political advocacy Foundation - and in many ways strives to be the opposite - any exception to its normal neutrality would have to be considered very carefully indeed.
Heh... we should have a site notice that says "Some people say software patents are bad and say "thankyou poland!", and some people say software patents are good and do not say "thankyou poland!", and some people prefer to abstain from the discussion."
Mark
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:23:15 +0000, Rowan Collins rowan.collins@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 00:52:19 +0200, NSK nsk2@wikinerds.org wrote:
On Sunday 16 January 2005 00:04, Paweł 'Ausir' Dembowski wrote:
Saying that sofware patents are bad is a POV.
Not saying that software patents are bad is a POV.
No, saying that software patents *aren't* bad is a POV; not saying either is an *omission*; saying that there are people who believe both is NPOV.
If there were no article stating the case against software patents, *but there was one mentionning their advantages*, that would constitute a POV by omission.
But if not putting something *on the main page* constitutes declaring a POV for one side of the argument (which side?), then we're putting out a lot of points of view right now, because I don't see every debate in the world mentionned on Wikipedia's front page. [I wonder which side of the abortion debate we're supporting by advertising neither the "Right to life" nor the "Right to choose"...]
OK, so this is all a bit pedantic, but given that Wikimedia *isn't* a political advocacy Foundation - and in many ways strives to be the opposite - any exception to its normal neutrality would have to be considered very carefully indeed.
-- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP] _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org