What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour. The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded. So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
See for an example of font type switching this service page: (it is in Dutch but choices are obvious):
http://www.gemm.nl/webgemms/service.html
In this case the javascript changes from one CSS file to another. That is too complicated too maintain. Instead all preferences could be applied on the go by javascript iself.
For example my Wikipedia statistics pages remembers table font size: http://www.chello.nl/epzachte/Wikipedia/Statistics
Erik Zachte
Erik Zachte wrote:
In this case the javascript changes from one CSS file to another. That is too complicated too maintain. Instead all preferences could be applied on the go by javascript iself.
I'm no expert in this field, but that strikes me as an odd choice. I thought the whole point of factoring UI design stuff to a CSS file was to make it _easier_ to maintain? Isn't writing UI layout/design code into JavaScript a lot uglier?
-Mark
Delirium wrote:
Erik Zachte wrote:
In this case the javascript changes from one CSS file to another. That is too complicated too maintain. Instead all preferences could be applied on the go by javascript iself.
I'm no expert in this field, but that strikes me as an odd choice. I thought the whole point of factoring UI design stuff to a CSS file was to make it _easier_ to maintain? Isn't writing UI layout/design code into JavaScript a lot uglier?
Yes, it is. If at all, this should be a preference option (not a separate Special Page) and it should affect the style sheet. But that makes it more complicated again, because currently the style sheets are static.
Timwi
On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 05:38 PM, Erik Zachte wrote:
What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour.
This sounds like a great idea. K5 does something similar, and it's nice to be able to select your own fonts.
The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded. So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
Hmm... One of the things I've learned while designing websites is that you should never count on any two user's JavaScript implementations doing the same thing. That's probably a cynical point of view, but still -- the differences between JavaScript implementations can vary quite a lot. I'm not sure that's really the way to go. (OTOH, I don't have any better ideas -- embedding a tiny piece of CSS in each page served to a registered user would be nice, but most likely way too server-intensive.)
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:38:06 +0200, Erik Zachte e.p.zachte@chello.nl gave utterance to the following:
What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour. The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded. So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
There's really no need to do any of the above. One gives the reader full control over font size and face simply by not specifying them in the HTML or stylesheet. They are then rendered in the user's preferred default which they set in their browser. (Any user who seriously cares about optimizing readability will probably be using a browser other than IE where the size control options are rather limited)
At 12:37 PM 7/22/03 +1200, Richard Grevers wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:38:06 +0200, Erik Zachte e.p.zachte@chello.nl gave utterance to the following:
What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour. The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded.
No thank you. Javascript is a security risk; Wikipedia doesn't need it and shouldn't ask me to use it.
So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
There's really no need to do any of the above. One gives the reader full control over font size and face simply by not specifying them in the HTML or stylesheet. They are then rendered in the user's preferred default which they set in their browser.
Most of us set defaults for common things like "visited link", not for unusual ones like "Wikipedia talk page".
(Any user who seriously cares about optimizing readability will probably be using a browser other than IE where the size control options are rather limited)
Ninety-six percent of Internet users are on IE these days. I'm in the other four percent, but we need to design for the typical user, not drive most people away with religious wars.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:08:01 -0400, Vicki Rosenzweig vr@redbird.org gave utterance to the following:
At 12:37 PM 7/22/03 +1200, Richard Grevers wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:38:06 +0200, Erik Zachte e.p.zachte@chello.nl gave utterance to the following:
What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour. The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded.
No thank you. Javascript is a security risk; Wikipedia doesn't need it and shouldn't ask me to use it.
So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
There's really no need to do any of the above. One gives the reader full control over font size and face simply by not specifying them in the HTML or stylesheet. They are then rendered in the user's preferred default which they set in their browser.
Most of us set defaults for common things like "visited link", not for unusual ones like "Wikipedia talk page".
Huh? In IE, Tools, Internet options, click the "fonts" button on the first panel: "The fonts you select here are displayed on Web pages and documents which do not have a specified text font" - it's generic as can be. And I have 13pt Trebuchet selected in every browser.
At 02:34 PM 7/22/03 +1200, you wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:08:01 -0400, Vicki Rosenzweig vr@redbird.org gave utterance to the following:
At 12:37 PM 7/22/03 +1200, Richard Grevers wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:38:06 +0200, Erik Zachte e.p.zachte@chello.nl gave utterance to the following:
What about giving the reader more control over things like font type and size ?
This is really not so hard to do. A special page could offer choices in font size, style and colour. The choices would be stored in a cookie (ok, a small minority will not benefit from this). Settings are applied through javascript after the page has loaded.
No thank you. Javascript is a security risk; Wikipedia doesn't need it and shouldn't ask me to use it.
So, minimal overhead for the server, it just includes a static js file. Direct feedback for the user, click a different size and presto! view the results. These formatting options might be added to the preferences page.
There's really no need to do any of the above. One gives the reader full control over font size and face simply by not specifying them in the HTML or stylesheet. They are then rendered in the user's preferred default which they set in their browser.
Most of us set defaults for common things like "visited link", not for unusual ones like "Wikipedia talk page".
Huh? In IE, Tools, Internet options, click the "fonts" button on the first panel: "The fonts you select here are displayed on Web pages and documents which do not have a specified text font" - it's generic as can be. And I have 13pt Trebuchet selected in every browser.
We're not just discussing fonts, though. The current questions include how to best use different background colors to distinguish between *kinds of Wikipedia page*. "Default font for everything" is common; specific-to-a-single-Website things will be set by few people.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:52:45 -0400, Vicki Rosenzweig vr@redbird.org gave utterance to the following:
We're not just discussing fonts, though. The current questions include how to best use different background colors to distinguish between *kinds of Wikipedia page*. "Default font for everything" is common; specific-to-a-single- Website things will be set by few people.
You might be but I was answering Erik's suggestion that all sorts of unecessary stuff like script and cookies be used to give users control of font size and face for articles. The sub-thread background discussion is happening somewhere else on this list.
Actually, a few months back I posted a feature request at sourceforge suggesting that user preferences be expanded to allow users to specify an URL(s) for their personal stylesheet(s) (plural allowing for meta, talk). I would host my preferred skin on my internal network, saving wikipedia bandwidth, and I'm sure people who create skins might allow others to link to them on their own server space.
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org