Scríobh Jens Ropers:
Sorry to say it, but I consider that cultural defeatism.
Really? If Hu Jintao calls elections, and releases the thousands of Falun Gong practitioners languishing in PRC jails, then maybe we can start talking about his "achievements". Until then, the PRC is just another communist dictatorship backed by the military, and not the sort of people that those of us enjoying living in liberal democratic countries should be defending. And like all dictatorships, the PRC has correctly recognised the free flow of information across the Internet as a threat to their dominance. Now, the people of China can access information from beyond the country, from beyond state-controlled media outlets, and make up their own minds as to whether they like living under undemocratic communist rule, or whether they want something else. I presume that there's some metaphorical pant-wetting going on in the upper reaches of Chinese Communist Party over the sort of information coming in through the Internet.
Now, Wikipedia isn't going to cause the masses in China to rise up against the Party, and start their own democracy. But, enough little streams of information like Wikipedia could be enough to erode the foundation of the more oppressive elements of the government, and allow the Chinese people to change their country to somewhere where they can freely speak their mind, where they can freely practice their religion, and have an equal say in who their leaders are. I think we owe it to the Chinese people, to at least help to give them that choice (and hey, if in a free election, they choose the Communist party - then all the more power to them). Which is why we shouldn't give a hoot what the PRC government thinks is "acceptable" in terms of the content on :zh.
II. How much do you know about the Chinese government? Are you aware that many, many Chinese "ordinary Joes" are government officials?
I'm an Australian government official - but does that change anything? My government still does some dreadful things - and the fact that lots of us work for it is irrelevant. Power is concentrated in the hands of a privileged few in the Chinese government - the influence of these "everyday Chinese Joes" that you speak of, who are members of the Party, is absolutely squat.
Here are some links that you may enjoy, on the very people that you are defending:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong
III. You may want to make it clear that you were referring to Ireland (you were, right?) as regards "sitting on your island".
I was referring to the Isle of Man, actually (although I do love Ireland, and I'm active on :ga). And again, I have nothing against the Chinese people, race, or whatever - my animosity is towards those senior members of the Chinese Communist Party who deny the Chinese people the basic freedoms that I enjoy every day. I also take extreme offence to the implication that because I'm white, I'm somehow responsible for the colonial adventures of certain European countries, despite the fact that my ancestry doesn't come from any of those countries, and despite the fact that we got conquered as well. Mr Sheng stating that "Only the whites would go all around the world robbing and killing." is as ludicrous and offensive as someone saying "Every Asian person is responsible for the current human rights disaster in mainland China".
In any case, Erik Moeller is quite correct when he says that this is not the place to conduct this discussion. If you, or anyone else on the list, cares to discuss this further, I suggest that we find somewhere else to do it, and let everyone else on this list get on with their business. This will be my last word on the matter on this list.
Regards, - Craig Franklin
------------------- Craig Franklin PO Box 764 Ashgrove, Q, 4060 Australia http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art, and Culture.
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