Am I right that your objection is "The articles on marxists.org are wholly unsuitable for inclusion in wikipedia under the titles they have on that site."
That's right.
I've yet to see anyone disagree with you on this.
I agree.
That might be a diplomatic way to approach them--just say that all of their stuff is welcome, if titled "Marxist views on X..." or similar, and that some information from those articles might also make its way into the "X..." articles themselves, but not most of it.
Am I right that your objection is "The articles on marxists.org are wholly unsuitable for inclusion in wikipedia under the titles they have on that site."
That's right.
I've yet to see anyone disagree with you on this.
I agree.
That might be a diplomatic way to approach them--just say that all of their stuff is welcome, if titled "Marxist views on X..." or similar, and that some information from those articles might also make its way into the "X..." articles themselves, but not most of it.
I would not be in favor of having loads of articles on someone's view on something. We need a general article on Marxism, and 2 or 3 articles like "Marxist views on Economics" or "Marxist views on History" might even be ok, but in general such a view should be (with the clear indications what it is) on the main page in those areas where the Marxist view is important, and not on Wikipedia at all where it is not.
Andre
At 01:17 PM 8/18/02 +0200, Andre Engels wrote:
I would not be in favor of having loads of articles on someone's view on something. We need a general article on Marxism, and 2 or 3 articles like "Marxist views on Economics" or "Marxist views on History" might even be ok, but in general such a view should be (with the clear indications what it is) on the main page in those areas where the Marxist view is important, and not on Wikipedia at all where it is not.
A large number of articles either on Marxism and associated movements, or historical articles on incidents where Communist parties have acted either in or out of power are appropriate, when someone has the energy to do them. Those articles necessarily will include Marxist theory as the actions are incomprehensible in its absence.
Communism was certainly a great experiment, the results of which generated a great deal of knowledge, there is no point at all in throwing the knowledge away.
Marx, for example, was quite sure that socialization of the means of production would create a cornucopia of wealth. Why and how that assumption is wrong is a very interesting question.
Why for example, does China not simply start their own Walmarts instead of importing them from Arkansas?
Fred
At 01:17 PM 8/18/02 +0200, Andre Engels wrote:
I would not be in favor of having loads of articles on someone's view on something. We need a general article on Marxism, and 2 or 3 articles like "Marxist views on Economics" or "Marxist views on History" might even be ok, but in general such a view should be (with the clear indications what it is) on the main page in those areas where the Marxist view is important, and not on Wikipedia at all where it is not.
A large number of articles either on Marxism and associated movements, or historical articles on incidents where Communist parties have acted either in or out of power are appropriate, when someone has the energy to do them. Those articles necessarily will include Marxist theory as the actions are incomprehensible in its absence.
I think that in most cases these explanations could be very short, with a link to a more general explanation which could be found at the 'Marxism' (or perhaps 'Communism') page. We should be giving a long, extensive overview of marxist ideas on that page, and give a short description of the marxist views on a subject with those subjects where that is of interest, but not create pages like "Marxist view on Freedom", "Marxist view on Sport", "Buddhist view on Sacrifice" or "Conservative Christian view on Terrorism".
Communism was certainly a great experiment, the results of which generated a great deal of knowledge, there is no point at all in throwing the knowledge away.
I'm not saying that we should throw this knowledge away. I am just questioning: 1. How much of it should be on Wikipedia, and 2. If it should be on Wikipedia, where
What I was arguing was that the answer on question 2 should be "either on the page on Marxism or on the subject page, NOT on a page called 'Marxist view of <subject>'".
Marx, for example, was quite sure that socialization of the means of production would create a cornucopia of wealth. Why and how that assumption is wrong is a very interesting question.
One can argue about what parts of marxist theory should be on Wikipedia, but I do agree that the part you are now mentioning is probably worth it. However, such a subject should NOT go to a page like "Marxist view on Wealth" or "Marxist view on Socialization", but on "Marxism" or on "Socialization". Although 'a very interesting question' in my opinion does also say that getting NPOV might be difficult here, but giving Marx's reasoning on the point, and the remark that the experience of 20th century Communism has proven him wrong on this point seems to be well in place.
Andre
Andre Engels wrote:
At 01:17 PM 8/18/02 +0200, Andre Engels wrote:
I would not be in favor of having loads of articles on someone's view on something. We need a general article on Marxism, and 2 or 3 articles like "Marxist views on Economics" or "Marxist views on History" might even be ok, but in general such a view should be (with the clear indications what it is) on the main page in those areas where the Marxist view is important, and not on Wikipedia at all where it is not.
A large number of articles either on Marxism and associated movements, or historical articles on incidents where Communist parties have acted either in or out of power are appropriate, when someone has the energy to do them. Those articles necessarily will include Marxist theory as the actions are incomprehensible in its absence.
I think that in most cases these explanations could be very short, with a link to a more general explanation which could be found at the 'Marxism' (or perhaps 'Communism') page. We should be giving a long, extensive overview of marxist ideas on that page, and give a short description of the marxist views on a subject with those subjects where that is of interest, but not create pages like "Marxist view on Freedom", "Marxist view on Sport", "Buddhist view on Sacrifice" or "Conservative Christian view on Terrorism".
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