1) mo = ISO 639 language code for Moldovan - it refers solely to a language and not a territory (this seems to be mixed up every now and then) 2) like Mark already said, they would continue the project anyway, also outside the WMF (remember the contents is GFDL and may be used by anyone) ... well one point to consider is: if you want to assure NPOV than you need to have that project within the WMF - outside there is no more guarantee about NPOV 3) following a research among colleagues (translators) Moldovan is listed as a separate language when it comes to in which and from which language is being translated - so there must be a real difference, otherwise translators would just say "Romanian" 4) we have "native speakers" in several projects that have a lower written language knowledge (even if these people are to be considered of mother tongue), the reasons for this are several and different from country to country - many of them started to write their language again when the wikipedia was started and after some time they again gained a much better written level of that language, contributing to cultural diversity and helping to understand their culture - this also leads to better understanding of other people and therefore to less conflicts.
Now considering these points (I could work out some more, but the main point for me is definitely NPOV) for me things are obvious ... but of course they cannot be obvious to all.
Well, I'll be away for some days from tomorrow on - and anyway I already was too much involved in this and really don't want to get further involved - it is not a nice thread and I like positive things best.
Best, Sabine Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
Some of the points you have presented are subjective, however the Moldo-Romanian linguistic identity is not a matter of debate. There is virtually not a single person who claims that formal written Moldovan differs from Romanian (as proven by the fact that Node directly transliterated articles from Ro to Mo with no "translation"). I don't really understand what research you carried out to come to your conclusion, but if you would consult any reference work (e.g. Moldovan language at en.wiki) you can find multiple sources emphasizing this point.
The only issue truly at stake here is the usage of the cyrillic alphabet for writing Moldovan, and that issue is a bit more complex. I don't wish to go into the details of that aspect of the debate at this point as they have been thoroughly discussed, but I wouldn't want you to make your decision on an incorrect premise (that formal Moldovan and Romanian differ).
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote: 1) mo = ISO 639 language code for Moldovan - it refers solely to a language and not a territory (this seems to be mixed up every now and then) 2) like Mark already said, they would continue the project anyway, also outside the WMF (remember the contents is GFDL and may be used by anyone) ... well one point to consider is: if you want to assure NPOV than you need to have that project within the WMF - outside there is no more guarantee about NPOV 3) following a research among colleagues (translators) Moldovan is listed as a separate language when it comes to in which and from which language is being translated - so there must be a real difference, otherwise translators would just say "Romanian" 4) we have "native speakers" in several projects that have a lower written language knowledge (even if these people are to be considered of mother tongue), the reasons for this are several and different from country to country - many of them started to write their language again when the wikipedia was started and after some time they again gained a much better written level of that language, contributing to cultural diversity and helping to understand their culture - this also leads to better understanding of other people and therefore to less conflicts.
Now considering these points (I could work out some more, but the main point for me is definitely NPOV) for me things are obvious ... but of course they cannot be obvious to all.
Well, I'll be away for some days from tomorrow on - and anyway I already was too much involved in this and really don't want to get further involved - it is not a nice thread and I like positive things best.
Best, Sabine Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just search for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ... well ...
I cannot contact these people now - I can only try to do it asap. Be sure I am going probably much further when I research than you can imagine.
Sorry, cannot follow up for the next days.
Best, Sabine
TSO1D From Wikpedia schrieb:
Some of the points you have presented are subjective, however the Moldo-Romanian linguistic identity is not a matter of debate. There is virtually not a single person who claims that formal written Moldovan differs from Romanian (as proven by the fact that Node directly transliterated articles from Ro to Mo with no "translation"). I don't really understand what research you carried out to come to your conclusion, but if you would consult any reference work (e.g. Moldovan language at en.wiki) you can find multiple sources emphasizing this point.
The only issue truly at stake here is the usage of the cyrillic alphabet for writing Moldovan, and that issue is a bit more complex. I don't wish to go into the details of that aspect of the debate at this point as they have been thoroughly discussed, but I wouldn't want you to make your decision on an incorrect premise (that formal Moldovan and Romanian differ).
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
If anyone is still interested to make some research on this matter, this information on metahttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_reliable_sources_say_about_Moldovan_Languagecould prove interesting. This summary on metahttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_decision_makers_need_to_knowcould also make things clearer.
On 7/4/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just search for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ... well ...
I doubt anyone will fall for that -- both of those sections are written by people who advocate for the closing.
By the way Sabine,
I see you are interested in doing research on this topic. As most translators will probably tell you, the actual differences between Moldovan and Romanian are negligible. The issue here is mostly one of culture and alphabet -- in Transnistria and sometimes in other areas, Moldovan is written using Cyrillic. Prior to 1989, Moldovan was written in Cyrillic in the entire Moldova as well.
Mark
On 05/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
If anyone is still interested to make some research on this matter, this information on metahttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_reliable_sources_say_about_Moldovan_Languagecould prove interesting. This summary on metahttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_decision_makers_need_to_knowcould also make things clearer.
On 7/4/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just search for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ... well ...
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On 7/5/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I doubt anyone will fall for that -- both of those sections are written by people who advocate for the closing.
... quoting western academic, neutral sources. (Encyclopedia Britannica, harvard.edu: Elizabeth Anderson, etc).
By the way Sabine,
I see you are interested in doing research on this topic. As most translators will probably tell you, the actual differences between Moldovan and Romanian are negligible. The issue here is mostly one of culture and alphabet -- in Transnistria and sometimes in other areas, Moldovan is written using Cyrillic. Prior to 1989, Moldovan was written in Cyrillic in the entire Moldova as well.
Mark
On 05/07/06, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
If anyone is still interested to make some research on this matter, this information on meta<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_reliable_...
could prove interesting. This summary on meta<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects#What_decision_...
could also make things clearer.
On 7/4/06, Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote:
Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just
search
for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ...
well
...
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The websites I found using the Google search you proposed just support my point. The first states: "Moldavian is in Moldova to the northeast, and Muntenian in Muntenia, or Wallachia in the southeast, other dialects in the north and west, including much of Transylvania., Alternate Names: Rumanian" Or the next one: " Moldovan is widely considered to be little more than the Romanian language renamed for political purposes."
Sabine schrieb:
Its not me who says that they differ, but having colleagues (just search for translations + Moldovan) that obviously make the difference ... well ... I cannot contact these people now - I can only try to do it asap. Be sure I am going probably much further when I research than you can imagine. Sorry, cannot follow up for the next days. Best, Sabine
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I said that I am going to talk to people - people that have nothing to do with the wikipedia and all the povs that are around here.
You can find all sorts of information that proof one or the other thesis on the internet (depending on with which search engine + which language version and word combination in which language you search) - that is definitely not the way to get information (I could give you some links that proof the contrary ... well: I don't want to use any of those).
And I don't like that you try to create a negative mood around - be positive.
It is definitely enough for today.
Best, Sabine
TSO1D From Wikpedia schrieb:
The websites I found using the Google search you proposed just support my point. The first states: "Moldavian is in Moldova to the northeast, and Muntenian in Muntenia, or Wallachia in the southeast, other dialects in the north and west, including much of Transylvania., Alternate Names: Rumanian" Or the next one: " Moldovan is widely considered to be little more than the Romanian language renamed for political purposes."
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale! http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
I am sorry if I came across as negative, I certainly didn't mean to be. In your last message you yourself said: (just search for "translations + Moldovan") and I did that in Google and showed you what results I got. I agree that this might not be the best way collect information, but it was you who proposed it. In any case, there is no need to rush the subject, now it's time to prepare for the game. Just need to decide who to root for.
Sabine Cretella sabine_cretella@yahoo.it wrote: I said that I am going to talk to people - people that have nothing to do with the wikipedia and all the povs that are around here.
You can find all sorts of information that proof one or the other thesis on the internet (depending on with which search engine + which language version and word combination in which language you search) - that is definitely not the way to get information (I could give you some links that proof the contrary ... well: I don't want to use any of those).
And I don't like that you try to create a negative mood around - be positive.
It is definitely enough for today.
Best, Sabine
TSO1D From Wikpedia schrieb:
The websites I found using the Google search you proposed just support my point. The first states: "Moldavian is in Moldova to the northeast, and Muntenian in Muntenia, or Wallachia in the southeast, other dialects in the north and west, including much of Transylvania., Alternate Names: Rumanian" Or the next one: " Moldovan is widely considered to be little more than the Romanian language renamed for political purposes."
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