Scríobh Mark Williamson:
Well, I for one felt it was nessecary to replace all content with copyvio notices
Wow, slam-dunk for overstepping the mark there. Since the whole "One Chinese Wikipedia" thing, you've done nothing except stir the pot and try to cause trouble. How old are you Mark, twelve? I realise this is not the place for a flamefest, but I think that describing you as a "decent editor" is being pretty generous. All you've contributed to this list is a bunch of half-researched junk about Sicilian and Gothic, which is either flat wrong or which no supporting material can be found for, and you've done it all with a very hostile attitude to a lot of people who have been very patient with you.
I'm willing to accept that it's the impetuousness of youth causing this trouble, but attempting to wipe out a whole Wikipedia without consulting anyone first was really just going a bit too far. I suggest you think carefully in the future about what you say, what you do, and how it will be perceived, and in the meantime, that you lay very, very, very low.
Regards, - Craig Franklin
------------------- Craig Franklin PO Box 764 Ashgrove, Q, 4060 Australia http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art, and Culture.
----- Original Message ----- From: wikipedia-l-request@Wikimedia.org To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 1:38 PM Subject: [personal] Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 47
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Today's Topics:
- RE: Request for a new Wikipedia (James R. Johnson)
- Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
- Re: Starting a new wiki (Ray Saintonge)
- RE: Request for a new Wikipedia (Alfio Puglisi)
- Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
- Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Anthere)
- Re: Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (Mark Williamson)
- RE: Re: Request for a new Wikipedia (James R. Johnson)
- toki pona (Angela_)
- Re: toki pona (Tim Starling)
- Re: toki pona (Mark Williamson)
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:58:04 -0400 From: "James R. Johnson" modean52@comcast.net Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Message-ID: 20040921195810.3543C1AC0252@mail.wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I tried Chinese, but didn't get too far. I stuck with Anglo-Saxon,
German,
French, Latin, and English. I'm best in German and Anglo-Saxon (speaking, writing), then French, then Latin. English is my first language. How
'bout
you, node?
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Ray Saintonge Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:22 PM To: Mark Williamson; wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
Mark Williamson wrote:
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
Your fluency in traditional Chinese, Gothic, and now Sicilian is a remarkable feat that few of us can duplicate. In the absence of such abilities I would tend to suggest that we wait for a request to be made by those who would like to work in Sicilian.
Ec
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Message: 2 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:19:25 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Message-ID: 849f98ed04092113194d086ac@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Question, when did I claim fluency in Gothic?
--node
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:21:30 -0700, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net
wrote:
Mark Williamson wrote:
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
Your fluency in traditional Chinese, Gothic, and now Sicilian is a remarkable feat that few of us can duplicate. In the absence of such abilities I would tend to suggest that we wait for a request to be made by those who would like to work in Sicilian.
Ec
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:25:14 -0700 From: Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Starting a new wiki To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Message-ID: 41508E2A.1090604@telus.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
Yann Forget wrote:
Hi,
Le Tuesday 21 September 2004 19:08, Ray Saintonge a écrit :
translated. Tagore died in 1941, so his works are essentially all in the public domain based on the life plus 60 law that prevails for India.
I am not sure. Does this apply worldwide? If yes, I have some texts available for Wikisource.
For the relevant Indian law see http://www.naukri.com/lls/copyright/section5.htm#22
For the relationship to US law see [[Itar-Tass Russian News Agency v. Russian Kurier, Inc.]] in Wikipedia.
Ec
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:44:07 +0200 (MEST) From: Alfio Puglisi puglisi@arcetri.astro.it Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Message-ID: Pine.GSO.4.58.0409212340240.24544@zeus Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
AFAIK, sicilian today has been blended a lot with Italian. The average sicilian hears Italian on television and writes in italian, not sicilian. I'm sure most of them have no idea of how Sicilian is written (I have no idea myself, but that doesn't count). It's not taught in schools, it's mostly oral tradition.
Alfio
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, James R. Johnson wrote:
Cool. How is Sicilian related to Italian and French?
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:21 PM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
best, node _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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Message: 5 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:14:07 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Message-ID: 849f98ed040921151470b01c3c@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
There are plenty of Sicilian-language websites online, in fact there are more than there are for Sardinian which is much much much more different from standard Italian.
As far as how its written, see http://www.linguasiciliana.org/lsu.htm (lingua siciliana unificata).
There are more books available in Sicilian than there are in Sardinian as well, including a few translations of popular literature. Also, Sicilian is, along with Italian, a co-official language of the Sicilian autonomous region of Italy.
--node
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:44:07 +0200 (MEST), Alfio Puglisi puglisi@arcetri.astro.it wrote:
AFAIK, sicilian today has been blended a lot with Italian. The average sicilian hears Italian on television and writes in italian, not
sicilian.
I'm sure most of them have no idea of how Sicilian is written (I have no idea myself, but that doesn't count). It's not taught in schools, it's mostly oral tradition.
Alfio
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, James R. Johnson wrote:
Cool. How is Sicilian related to Italian and French?
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 1:21 PM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for a new Wikipedia
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
best, node _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Message: 6 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200 From: Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: 4150AB78.5060303@yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND interested in starting that wikipedia ?
ant
Mark Williamson a écrit:
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
best, node
Message: 7 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:22:31 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Message-ID: 849f98ed0409211622527475a8@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I could probably get some together, but why is that nessecary? Most of the Wikipedias we have started with one or two users. The Cornish Wiki is growing at a very surprising pace, and it only has two editors.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200, Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND interested in starting that wikipedia ?
ant
Mark Williamson a écrit:
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
best, node
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Message: 8 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:09:54 -0400 From: "James R. Johnson" modean52@comcast.net Subject: RE: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia To: "'Mark Williamson'" node.ue@gmail.com, wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Message-ID: 20040922021039.247641AC028C@mail.wikimedia.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ditto Anglo-Saxon. There are at least 5-10 core people I can get to write articles, with perhaps 50 or so others for minor contributions, not
counting
traffic to the various OE websites that could be redirected to the Anglo-Saxon wiki, plus the people who e-mail me personally asking about
OE.
Est-ce que vous parlez en Francais, Mark? Je vais aller à France ce mars.
James
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mark Williamson Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:23 PM To: wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Request for a new Wikipedia
I could probably get some together, but why is that nessecary? Most of the Wikipedias we have started with one or two users. The Cornish Wiki is growing at a very surprising pace, and it only has two editors.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:30:16 +0200, Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Do you have perhaps 5 editors able to write and read sicilian AND interested in starting that wikipedia ?
ant
Mark Williamson a écrit:
Hi all,
The ISO 639 committee has *just* (literally) approved a code for the Sicilian language.
Sicilian has over 6 million speakers, and there is good internet
connectivity.
I would like to request that scn: be created for Sicilian.
best, node
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Message: 9 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:45:36 +0100 From: Angela_ beesley@gmail.com Subject: [Wikipedia-l] toki pona To: Wikipedia Mailing List wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org, sonja@kisa.ca Message-ID: 8b722b8004092119452220127f@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they can still do so.
As far as I am aware Sonja Kisa, the creator of the language, has released it under the GFDL, but I can't find any mailing list evidence to back this up.
If this is not the case, the wiki should obviously be removed but vandalizing hundreds of pages is not the way to go about this. I suggest we wait to hear from Sonja on the status of the copyright and remove it she can not confirm it is GFDL.
Angela.
Message: 10 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:05:18 +1000 From: Tim Starling ts4294967296@hotmail.com Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Re: toki pona To: wikipedia-l@wikipedia.org Message-ID: ciqq5g$gca$1@sea.gmane.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Angela_ wrote:
I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they can still do so.
Edits were performed anonymously with the IP address 24.251.242.236 . The corresponding hostname is ip24-251-242-236.ph.ph.cox.net.
On the English Wikipedia:
mysql> select distinct rc_user_text from recentchanges where rc_ip='24.251.242.236'; +--------------+ | rc_user_text | +--------------+ | Node ue | +--------------+
I suggest a temporary ban from all projects effective immediately.
-- Tim Starling
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:38:29 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] toki pona To: Angela_ beesley@gmail.com, wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org Message-ID: 849f98ed040921203830a61096@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Well, I for one felt it was nessecary to replace all content with copyvio notices because it states explicitly on the Toki Pona homepage that Toki Pona is copyrighted. In a cursory Google search, just to make sure I wasn't missing some sort of release by Sonja of the information into the public domain or under some sort of terms, I found no page under which Sonja released the language in any sort of way.
While it is debatable whether or not a language is copyrightable (see Lojban), I feared for Wikipedias interests and so took down those pages immediately pending further investigation.
Some have raised the point that a significant number of the pages were written by Sonja herself, and thus were explicitly released under the terms of the gfdl when she clicked "submit".
I have two things to say to that:
At the time I did not realise this.
Since I suspected that they were copyvios, rather than checking the
history of each of 200-odd pages I simply replaced them all.
Since it appears they were indeed *not* copyvio, the appropriate course of action is simply to revert them to their previous versions after it has been shown that they aren't copyvio, and then keep going from where you were.
Whether or not I am blocked from all projects is obviously not my choice, but I will submit that I have contributed much to the community. For example, just in the past couple of days I have made logos for over a dozen Wikipedias, and posted them on Meta. I am also (at least I think) partially responsible for the founding of fo: and lb: (I informed people of the possibility of creating them).
Anyhow the decision doesn't rest in my hands. I will not object if it is decided that I should be blocked or banned or whatever, I will only defend myself against specific arguments.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:45:36 +0100, Angela_ beesley@gmail.com wrote:
I've just reverted over 200 edits on the toki pona Wikipedia. Someone apparently feels the language is copyrighted so decided to replace every page, including user pages and the main page, with a copyright violation notice, presumably with the use of a bot. I've reverted these, although unfortunately the "bot rollback" failed on later pages so recent changes is a mess. I haven't deleted anything, so if people want to see the pages, such as "copyviopedia" this person created they can still do so.
As far as I am aware Sonja Kisa, the creator of the language, has released it under the GFDL, but I can't find any mailing list evidence to back this up.
If this is not the case, the wiki should obviously be removed but vandalizing hundreds of pages is not the way to go about this. I suggest we wait to hear from Sonja on the status of the copyright and remove it she can not confirm it is GFDL.
Angela. _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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End of Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 47
No, this is not the place for a flamefest.
What was the half-researched junk I said about Sicilian? The Ethnologue agrees with me as to the number of speakers.
Also, perhaps it didn't occur to you that "decent editor" refers to contributions to the community, and not just posts on the ML?
Also, since you get e-mails from the list in digest format, I would ask that in the future, you please trim them in your replies.
--node
Mark Williamson a écrit:
No, this is not the place for a flamefest.
What was the half-researched junk I said about Sicilian? The Ethnologue agrees with me as to the number of speakers.
Also, perhaps it didn't occur to you that "decent editor" refers to contributions to the community, and not just posts on the ML?
Also, since you get e-mails from the list in digest format, I would ask that in the future, you please trim them in your replies.
--node
Who are you answering to ?
Oh, definitely not you. I was answering to Craig Franklin.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:34:29 +0200, Anthere anthere9@yahoo.com wrote:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
No, this is not the place for a flamefest.
What was the half-researched junk I said about Sicilian? The Ethnologue agrees with me as to the number of speakers.
Also, perhaps it didn't occur to you that "decent editor" refers to contributions to the community, and not just posts on the ML?
Also, since you get e-mails from the list in digest format, I would ask that in the future, you please trim them in your replies.
--node
Who are you answering to ?
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Some (openly accessible) background info on Node_ue:
Node's EN contributions can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=Node_ue http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=24.251.242.236 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=68.110.71.34 (this is not necessarily a complete list -- there might be other accounts/IPs)
Node_ue (aka Mark Andrew Williamson, aka Jin Junshu, aka Kanamura Toshigaki [and also known by Korean and Navajo names which he gives on his homepage]) is currently 15 years old.
This is according to his own homepage
which can be found via his user page
Also according to his user page, Node_ue is currently getting home-schooled.
This suggests to me that Node is a very young contributor (nothing wrong with that) whose "Real World exposure" may be be limited. It might be a good idea to take that into account in any potential deliberations.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
I don't know anybody currently who knows me by my Navajo name although I have in the past.
As to other IPs/acc'ts: There are heaps and heaps of other IPs. Most of them I will probably never be able to recover the contribs for. I'm supposed to have a static IP (I have cable), but it changes every so often.
As far as "very young contributor", I think it is not fair to judge my actions only by my age but also by the age relative to other contributors. There's a good 10 or 20 regular contributors who fall between the ages of 13 and 18, and there's also a lot of regular contributors between 18 and 21.
As far as home schooling is concerned, that's only for the last school year or so, and I still have regular social contact with my peers and with others, so I don't think its fair to say my situation leaves me socially deprived.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:00:42 +0200, Jens Ropers ropers@ropersonline.com wrote:
Some (openly accessible) background info on Node_ue:
Node's EN contributions can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=Node_ue http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=24.251.242.236 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special: Contributions&target=68.110.71.34 (this is not necessarily a complete list -- there might be other accounts/IPs)
Node_ue (aka Mark Andrew Williamson, aka Jin Junshu, aka Kanamura Toshigaki [and also known by Korean and Navajo names which he gives on his homepage]) is currently 15 years old.
This is according to his own homepage
which can be found via his user page
Also according to his user page, Node_ue is currently getting home-schooled.
This suggests to me that Node is a very young contributor (nothing wrong with that) whose "Real World exposure" may be be limited. It might be a good idea to take that into account in any potential deliberations.
-- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com
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