Timwi wrote:
Additionally, to have a Klingon Wikipedia doesn't
do any harm.
That is exactly what is in dispute, as a number of people claim that it
*would* do harm to Wikipedia's reputation. (I personally think it would
do no more harm than Esperanto -- which already garners the occasional
smirk or raised eyebrow -- and might well do as much good in recruiting
contributors. Nonetheless the objection exists and is common, including
being advanced by the guy who holds the keys and the purse strings. You
have to convince him, not me.)
It
doesn't force anyone to contribute. Most people who "oppose" the Klingon
Wikipedia are merely providing arguments for not contributing to it.
I'm not aware of any such arguments being advanced. Can you give examples?
The
only arguments that actually oppose the introduction of a Klingon
Wikipedia are (a) copyright problems (which we've established numerous
times isn't an issue)
I would very much appreciate it if you could then establish it for us
right here. Were Wikipedia run by me alone, lojban would have been added
years ago; Klingon though has an explicit copyright question about it,
which I'd need to see answered before endorsing it for a copyleft project.
and (b) reputation problems (which is a really
dumb argument for keeping Toki Pona).
Please don't make strawman arguments. An argument against Klingon is not
an argument in favor of Toki Pona; most people who make the reputation
argument probably oppose the inclusion of both languages (and many have).
If you must compare Klingon and Toki Pona, note that because Klingon is
well known (and oft mocked) and Toki Pona is not, there is much more
weight to a reputation-based objection against Klingon than one against
Toki Pona. I don't make this objection, but I recognize that it exists.
So, we've
put off any further 'young conlang' additions to the main
Wikipedia project pending more conclusive resolution.
This is unsatisfactory. This is like saying Toki Pona got lucky because
it was there first. I think that's an extremely lame excuse for keeping
Toki Pona while disallowing Klingon.
That is a literally true account of what happened. And yes, it's
unsatisfactory. It's even *lame*. Howver, it's 100% factual: until a
clear decision is set down, the status quo remains.
Additionally, what is your definition of a
"young" conlang? I'm pretty
sure that Klingon is at lesat five times as old as Toki Pona.
I'd define it in opposition to "old" conlangs such as Volapük and
Esperanto (1870s-1880s), Ido and Latino Sine Flexione (1900s),
Occidental (1920s) and at the young end of the old ones IALA Interlingua
(1950s). These languages are older than my parents, which counts as old
enough to me ;) and are either still in active use or of historical
interest due to their influence in the field.
Klingon dates only to the 1980s, a mere whelp, and additionally is
primarily an entertainment product owned and packaged by a media
corporation rather than a general-purpose language intended and promoted
for international communications, business, education, and daily life.
Anyway, my proposal for sidestepping the issue is creating a side
project specifically for "young" or "entertainment" or
"artistic" or
"personal" or "frivolous" conlangs. This would enable people
interested
in such things to do them while keeping a lower profile to avoid being
harassed all the time by the haters out there.
In MeatBall terminology, we want to EnlargeSpace[1] to AvoidConflict.
This is the same reason we've got Wiktionary and WikiQuotes and
WikiSource: 'Wikipedia is not a dictionary' but many people *want* to
work on a dictionary. Working on a dictionary in a sister project is a
better solution than fighting over every attempt to write a word
definition-only article on Wikipedia.
Timwi, which would you prefer, given these two options: a
Klingon-language encyclopedia for the hobbyists interested in it on a
side project, or neverending fighting *about* one that never comes into
being?
Anti-Klingonists, which would you prefer, given these two options: a
Klingon-language encyclopedia in a side project that you never have to
see or hear about, or neverending fighting *about* one from people who
just won't shut up about it?
Everybody who doesn't give a dang, which would you prefer: never hearing
about this stuff again because people are off wikiing, or *neverending
fighting about hobbyist languages on this list*?
[1]
http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?EnlargeSpace
-- brion vibber (brion @
pobox.com)