"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
If Wikipedia creates a space into which academic competition can expand, then scholars will fill it. As soon as some scholars see a way to pad their CVs or increase their prestige in their field through contributing to Wikipedia, they will.
How do you create a space where scholars can compete? Since the prizes in academia are relevance and prestige, and since relevance/presitge are measured by the number of people who are citing your work, Wikipedia could allow users to cite scholarly works in articles, and track those citations competitively. For example:
- Allow users to upload read-only versions of their papers. - Give users the ability to cite and link to these uploaded read-only papers from within the text of the Wikipedia article. - The author of each paper should have his/her own profile. This is where score is kept. There you'll find: - the user's "Area of Expertise": a list of the Wikipedia articles which cite the user's papers. - A list of users who have similar Areas of Expertise, base.
Just as Wikipedians keep each other honest by checking each others' work, scholars (and non-academic Wikiepdians) will keep each other honest by reviewing each others' citations in articles.
The first scholar to cite his work in a wikipedia article will be the expert on that subject. But, there's no point in being an expert if no one knows about it, which is why word will spread, and others will follow.
If a subject that applies to a scholar's work does not exist as an article, then the scholar will have an incentive to write it, in order to include his/her citation and increase or refine his/her area of expertise relative to others. Since scholars who are similar can see each other, once a scholar writes a new article, the others can add their own citations, to stay competitive on those topics.
Another way scholars can compete is by answering questions from users. Google's pay-per-use "Ask Google", is interesting, and useful, but terribly centralized. If Wikipedia allowed users to ask questions to scholars through Wikipedia, then allowed users to rank the responses from scholars, then scholars could be ranked relative to each other based on their ability to answer questions in certain fields. All questions and answers would be saved and searchable by keyword, or browseable by the articles it is categorized under, therefore available to other users.
The result would be information on scholars' areas of expertise and information on scholars' ability to answer questions in that area, which I think would be important information when competing for jobs.
My basic assumption behind this is: once academics have the opportunity to get credit for their work, in a way that ranks them competitively to others in their field, the will do so.
What do you think?
Abe
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
You're absolutely correct, here. Wikipedia is an individually thankless project, and perhaps best so.
If Wikipedia creates a space into which academic competition can expand, then scholars will fill it. As soon as some scholars see a way to pad their CVs or increase their prestige in their field through contributing to Wikipedia, they will.
How do you create a space where scholars can compete? Since the prizes in academia are relevance and prestige, and since relevance/presitge are measured by the number of people who are citing your work, Wikipedia could allow users to cite scholarly works in articles, and track those citations competitively. For example:
I can't say I like the idea of encouraging our editors to spend less time editing articles and more time trying to come up with their profound thesis for the month. And to what end? So one can cite his own work in an article edit, or so others can cite the work of experts? If the former, then I fail to see the point in this, and if the latter, I ask why someone would publish on the Wiki if he isn't going to otherwise contribute.
You don't need a self-standing complex of assertions and conclusions to make a valid contribution to an article, and it's probably best if most of our editors (not to be offensive) stick to adding key points to articles where appropriate, rather than trying to branch out too far into fields they aren't experts in
- Allow users to upload read-only versions of their papers.
Wikipedia is not a Web host. The entire point of a Wiki is to provide for the open editing of content, and when this is negated, said content may as well be on Geocities.
- Give users the ability to cite and link to these uploaded read-only
papers from within the text of the Wikipedia article.
This is already possible via off-site links, and ties in with the point above.
- The author of each paper should have his/her own profile. This is where
score is kept. There you'll find:
- the user's "Area of Expertise": a list of the Wikipedia articles which
cite the user's papers.
- A list of users who have similar Areas of Expertise, base.
Now you're talking about ranking an editor's usefulness in a formal way, establishing a social hierarchy--something the community has resisted at every stage thus far.
Just as Wikipedians keep each other honest by checking each others' work, scholars (and non-academic Wikiepdians) will keep each other honest by reviewing each others' citations in articles.
Again, this is no different from the current system, except that we'd be turning Wikipedia into a Web host.
The first scholar to cite his work in a wikipedia article will be the expert on that subject. But, there's no point in being an expert if no one knows about it, which is why word will spread, and others will follow.
If a subject that applies to a scholar's work does not exist as an article, then the scholar will have an incentive to write it, in order to include his/her citation and increase or refine his/her area of expertise relative to others. Since scholars who are similar can see each other, once a scholar writes a new article, the others can add their own citations, to stay competitive on those topics.
Again, why should we encourage this?
Another way scholars can compete is by answering questions from users. Google's pay-per-use "Ask Google", is interesting, and useful, but terribly centralized. If Wikipedia allowed users to ask questions to scholars through Wikipedia, then allowed users to rank the responses from scholars, then scholars could be ranked relative to each other based on their ability to answer questions in certain fields. All questions and answers would be saved and searchable by keyword, or browseable by the articles it is categorized under, therefore available to other users.
This already exists, although the page in question wasn't initially created for this reason: [[Wikipedia:Reference desk]]. The only thing different about what you propose is the addition of a ranking system--see above; "social hierarchy."
The result would be information on scholars' areas of expertise and information on scholars' ability to answer questions in that area, which I think would be important information when competing for jobs.
My basic assumption behind this is: once academics have the opportunity to get credit for their work, in a way that ranks them competitively to others in their field, the will do so.
What do you think?
See my comments above. What you propose isn't in itself a bad idea, and could be very well implemented as part of a project distinct from Wikipedia, but I think it's entirely contrary to the direction the community has been following.
Abe
Abe wrote:
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
I've occasionally wished for something like that, since Wikipedia and academia between the two of them take up nearly all of my time, but I think the two have quite different philosophies that aren't necessarily well mixed. Part of Wikipedia's strength is the exact opposite of the prestige and control of resources that characterizes academia: nobody has prestigious bylines on important articles; nobody is appointed executive editor for articles or sets of articles; and so on.
Take for example photographs, which might be the least problematic place to start. Perhaps we should credit people who submit FDL'd photographs in a byline that appears below the photograph (or even in the print version, below the photograph). This would give photograph submitters some prestige in return for hopefully encouraging submission of more good FDL'd photographs. But it could also have downsides: people might start caring about the prestige more about the quality of the encyclopedia; they might care more about whether their photographs are the ones with the prestigious bylines than whether a particular photograph is the best one to illustrate a particular point, and might like inserting their photographs everywhere rather than judiciously inserting them only where they add something significant to an article. With text it seems that the same sorts of problems would be even more severe.
So philosophically I guess I think we ought to keep more to a model of anonymous thankless volunteers than to a model of prestigious scientists. And it does seem to be working so far, so I don't think we need radical changes to encourage more writing.
-Mark
Abe wrote:
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
I don't know what academia you're familiar with, but where I'm from, I'm told not to publish any source code for fear of losing competitive advantage, and to patent anything that looks potentially useful via the spin-off company. A spin-off company which doesn't do anything, it just owns patents and spends large amounts of money "maintaining" them. Publishing results is OK as long as everyone knows which fabulous world-class group produced them.
This is primarily a result of IP protection and commercialisation being seen as important for our national interests, and therefore an important part of deciding how to allocate Federal research grants.
-- Tim Starling
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:37:55 +1000, Tim Starling ts4294967296@hotmail.com wrote:
Abe wrote:
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
I don't know what academia you're familiar with, but where I'm from, I'm told not to publish any source code for fear of losing competitive advantage, and to patent anything that looks potentially useful via the spin-off company. A spin-off company which doesn't do anything, it just owns patents and spends large amounts of money "maintaining" them. Publishing results is OK as long as everyone knows which fabulous world-class group produced them.
This is primarily a result of IP protection and commercialisation being seen as important for our national interests, and therefore an important part of deciding how to allocate Federal research grants.
Abe's version is more prevalent in the humanities, while Tim's version more accurately reflects the sciences, and in particular, engineering.
moink
Moink makes a good point. I've been involved with both disciplines (trained in engineering but doing research in media studies), which is probably why I have unusual views on this.
However, I believe the proposal to get more academics involved goes the wrong way - instead of modifying Wikipedia processes to be attractive to the "academic methods", it should be the other way around. Find ways to get traditional academic folks to contribute using the "wisdom of crowds" method. One way might be to be able to conveniently email a link to an article to someone, and say "This article could use your expertise, could you help us out?" Academics are not averse to contributing to encyclopedias - they are asked to do so quite often.
Also, what Abe describes would likely be incompatible with the "no original research" policy we've had for a while. Rather, Wikipedia (and most encyclopedias) are secondary source works, not primary battlegrounds for ideas.
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:49:50 -0400, moink theresa.robinson@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:37:55 +1000, Tim Starling ts4294967296@hotmail.com wrote:
Abe wrote:
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
I don't know what academia you're familiar with, but where I'm from, I'm told not to publish any source code for fear of losing competitive advantage, and to patent anything that looks potentially useful via the spin-off company. A spin-off company which doesn't do anything, it just owns patents and spends large amounts of money "maintaining" them. Publishing results is OK as long as everyone knows which fabulous world-class group produced them.
This is primarily a result of IP protection and commercialisation being seen as important for our national interests, and therefore an important part of deciding how to allocate Federal research grants.
Abe's version is more prevalent in the humanities, while Tim's version more accurately reflects the sciences, and in particular, engineering.
moink
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Andrew Lih (andrew.lih@gmail.com) [040731 12:18]:
Also, what Abe describes would likely be incompatible with the "no original research" policy we've had for a while. Rather, Wikipedia (and most encyclopedias) are secondary source works, not primary battlegrounds for ideas.
Not necessarily [[original research]]. What Abe seems to be describing (please correct me if I'm wrong) is doing something to create more quality work, to academic standards, that would then available under GFDL or a compatible license. That is, something to get the quality work produced.
This need not necessarily be done on Wikipedia. I'm not sure what he describes would fit with the Wikipedia way of doing things, but that doesn't mean it isn't a very good idea to have happen somewhere. It's a project worth thinking about. If credit will get quality academics to contribute, then how do we get credit to work properly in a Wiki environment? That sort of thing.
- d.
He described these articles as read only.
Fred
From: David Gerard fun@thingy.apana.org.au Reply-To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:18:08 +1000 To: wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: send in the academics
Andrew Lih (andrew.lih@gmail.com) [040731 12:18]:
Also, what Abe describes would likely be incompatible with the "no original research" policy we've had for a while. Rather, Wikipedia (and most encyclopedias) are secondary source works, not primary battlegrounds for ideas.
Not necessarily [[original research]]. What Abe seems to be describing (please correct me if I'm wrong) is doing something to create more quality work, to academic standards, that would then available under GFDL or a compatible license. That is, something to get the quality work produced.
This need not necessarily be done on Wikipedia. I'm not sure what he describes would fit with the Wikipedia way of doing things, but that doesn't mean it isn't a very good idea to have happen somewhere. It's a project worth thinking about. If credit will get quality academics to contribute, then how do we get credit to work properly in a Wiki environment? That sort of thing.
- d.
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Abe arafi@umich.edu wrote:
"Academia" is the name for a huge institutionalized process of peer review. Wikipedia is peer review on steroids, so you'd think that academics would be clamoring to contribute to Wikipedia, especially since academia and Wikipedia both love free expression and open discourse. The difference is, academia is peer review with competition for prestige and resources, and Wikipedia is not.
There's other differences as well. In academia to be a "peer" who reviews an article, one has to have shown at least some expertise in the subject first. In Wikipedia, I can come in and judge the article on black holes by my own misunderstanding of Hawking radiation.
Another point is authorship. Authorship of Wikipedia articles is rather vague. This person writes a line, that one a paragraph. The academia way would be something like one person writes an article, and if someone else has something to say about a subject, that person writes a different article, and both articles are shown when the revelant search word is given. That's closer to Nupedia and such.
Another point with people from academia is that they are judged by their publications. We might change Wikipedia so that the articles are closer to scientific publications in form, but then still there is the problem that what I write today might be chopped up into something completely different by someone else. That might well be too large a difference.
Andre Engels
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org