I would just like to point out that part of the frustration that the current non-English Wikipedians seem to feel is that there appears to be a hierarchy where the English Wikipedia is considered to be far more important than the non-English Wikipedias in some. This is also one of the reasons why we had a Spanish fork to begin with. Part of the reason why we were getting good vibes from them on reunification is due to our then tentative plans to move the English Wikipedia to en.wikipedia.org. So without this small concession by us, I don't think there is a good chance for them rejoining our project. The English Wikipedia won't be harmed by being placed at en.wikipedia.org -- this is the only fair and neutral thing to do. If the English Wikipedia continues to push its weight around over these types of issues then there will be other forks. How is that for Balkanizaiton?
As I stated before, the URL thing is symbolic and each Wikipedia encyclopedia in my view should be treated as siblings. Granted the English Wikipedia is the oldest and largest but it shouldn't be vaulted as /The Main/ Wikipedia with the other languages relegated to second class status in The Main WIkipedia's shadow. The Main Wikipedia is the /whole/ project which includes all languages not just one, no? I furthermore don't see a move as Balkanization when we will soon all be on the same software, all use the same Metapedia and all have interlanguage links going back and forth from all the different languages. I now will often take info from articles in other languages to update their English counterparts and I also see the reverse being done by non-English Wikipedias. www.wikipedia.org should be home for the Foundation and a portal to each of the different language sub-projects as I stated in my previous post. The English Wikipedia would be just one click away from the portal and so would all the other wikipedias. This is only fair.
--- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com
On 10/10/02 6:41 PM, "Daniel Mayer" maveric149@yahoo.com wrote: <snip>
Granted the English Wikipedia is the oldest and largest but it shouldn't be vaulted as /The Main/ Wikipedia with the other languages relegated to second class status in The Main WIkipedia's shadow.
By the same token, the English-lang Wikipedia is the oldest and largest (by far), and it shouldn't be shoved around simply for the sake of political correctness.
The Main Wikipedia is the /whole/ project which includes all languages not just one, no?
I agree that the Wikipedia project includes all languages. Whether changing www.wikipedia.org to a portal page is a good idea is a different question.
I furthermore don't see a move as Balkanization when we will soon all be on the same software, all use the same Metapedia and all have interlanguage links going back and forth from all the different languages. I now will often take info from articles in other languages to update their English counterparts and I also see the reverse being done by non-English Wikipedias.
All those things are exactly what I agree with.
www.wikipedia.org should be home for the Foundation and a portal to each of the different language sub-projects as I stated in my previous post. The English Wikipedia would be just one click away from the portal and so would all the other wikipedias. This is only fair.
Fairness is a very squishy issue. Is it only fair that states with populations of 600,000 get the same number of Senators as states with populations of 35,000,000?
It would be a poor idea for www.wikipedia.org become the foundation url.
It should have its own url, much as gnu.org and fsf.org are separately named.
"The Cunctator" skribis:
It would be a poor idea for www.wikipedia.org become the foundation url.
It should have its own url, much as gnu.org and fsf.org are separately named.
... and both servers www.gnu.org and www.fsf.org have completly the same pages.
This is a bad example.
Paul
On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 20:40, Paul Ebermann wrote:
"The Cunctator" skribis:
It would be a poor idea for www.wikipedia.org become the foundation url.
It should have its own url, much as gnu.org and fsf.org are separately named.
... and both servers www.gnu.org and www.fsf.org have completly the same pages.
This is a bad example.
Got me there! Maybe that's why the site is so confusing.
Fairness is a very squishy issue. Is it only fair that states with populations of 600,000 get the same number of Senators as states with populations of 35,000,000?
no... thats why congresses, in the US, mexico, germany, and..alot of other places, have the uhm "house of representatives" or equivalent.. why? you want to set up a wikipedia bicameral congress or soemthing?
please i apologize if i missed the point. i just woke up frm a long nap and i am very hungry
Lightning
--- The Cunctator cunctator@kband.com wrote:
On 10/10/02 6:41 PM, "Daniel Mayer" maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip> > Granted the English Wikipedia is the oldest > and largest but it shouldn't be vaulted as /The Main/ > Wikipedia with the other languages relegated to second > class status in The Main WIkipedia's shadow.
By the same token, the English-lang Wikipedia is the oldest and largest (by far), and it shouldn't be shoved around simply for the sake of political correctness.
Do you think the English Wikipedia is being shoved around? These things are not being discussed for political correctness, but are an attempt to bring the separate language project together.
The Main Wikipedia is the /whole/ project which includes
all
languages not just one, no?
I agree that the Wikipedia project includes all languages. Whether changing www.wikipedia.org to a portal page is a good idea is a different question.
You're right.
<snip>
It would be a poor idea for www.wikipedia.org become the foundation url.
It should have its own url, much as gnu.org and fsf.org are separately named.
Both fsf.org and gnu.org point to the same page.
Stephen G.
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com
I haven't voiced an opinion on this yet; however, I do feel strongly about it. Now, I disagree with mav often enough that I don't want to appoint him my diplomatic ambassador in perpetuity for all matters, but I do want to say that I agree entirely with what he wrote.
(I quote the post that I'm referring to in its entirety below, lest you confuse it with some other post that maybe I disagree with. But you can stop reading once you recognise it ^_^.)
-- Toby
Maveric149 wrote:
I would just like to point out that part of the frustration that the current non-English Wikipedians seem to feel is that there appears to be a hierarchy where the English Wikipedia is considered to be far more important than the non-English Wikipedias in some. This is also one of the reasons why we had a Spanish fork to begin with. Part of the reason why we were getting good vibes from them on reunification is due to our then tentative plans to move the English Wikipedia to en.wikipedia.org. So without this small concession by us, I don't think there is a good chance for them rejoining our project. The English Wikipedia won't be harmed by being placed at en.wikipedia.org -- this is the only fair and neutral thing to do. If the English Wikipedia continues to push its weight around over these types of issues then there will be other forks. How is that for Balkanizaiton?
As I stated before, the URL thing is symbolic and each Wikipedia encyclopedia in my view should be treated as siblings. Granted the English Wikipedia is the oldest and largest but it shouldn't be vaulted as /The Main/ Wikipedia with the other languages relegated to second class status in The Main Wikipedia's shadow. The Main Wikipedia is the /whole/ project which includes all languages not just one, no? I furthermore don't see a move as Balkanization when we will soon all be on the same software, all use the same Metapedia and all have interlanguage links going back and forth from all the different languages. I now will often take info from articles in other languages to update their English counterparts and I also see the reverse being done by non-English Wikipedias. www.wikipedia.org should be home for the Foundation and a portal to each of the different language sub-projects as I stated in my previous post. The English Wikipedia would be just one click away from the portal and so would all the other wikipedias. This is only fair.
--- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org