From: Andre Engels engels@uni-koblenz.de
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Anthere wrote:
So...Brion...could you please remove the
possibility
of making online linking from the international wikipedias please ?
It is a consensus reached by those who worked clearing up the topic these past 10 days. With no opposing voices. Thanks.
If you just make them impossible, it would break
quite >a numer of pages.
So IF you do this, and I do not agree with Anthere that the fact that noone said anything means that we all agree, then I think it will be better to keep the possibility to have this inter-Wikipedia, and just forbid such links to the outside world.
Andre Engels
Hi Andr�
Glad you answered :-) If you do not, how could I know you disagree ? :-)
To the point : you appear to agree with forbidding links from outside world. Are you aware of some people disagreeing with this, and if so, for which reasons ?
I agree with you it would be interesting to allow inwiki linking. Uploading really is a pain, and that make sense to share a common resource.
However, our users should be given the copyright status of the information provided. Text is gfdl. Images...not always so. They may prefer not to use fair use images, or cp pictures, with author permission to wikipedia. The problem of inline linking, is that the user have no easy access to that information. He could look for the internet link. See the image displayed, and now what ? How could he know how to tweak the link to get to the image description ?
If we keep inwiki linking, the user should have a way to access the description file of the image. Do you have a suggestion to do so ? I myself do not know.
Anthere
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From: "Anthere" anthere6@yahoo.com
However, our users should be given the copyright status of the information provided. Text is gfdl. Images...not always so. They may prefer not to use fair use images, or cp pictures, with author permission to wikipedia. The problem of inline linking, is that the user have no easy access to that information. He could look for the internet link. See the image displayed, and now what ? How could he know how to tweak the link to get to the image description
If this is going to be done it is all the more reason for the image description page to be completed with specific information. Remember that the image use page can never be "fair use" it is the use of that image that is fair use, thus all images that are used as fair use must have copyright information, i.e. where it was from, who took the photo, etc., otherwise a subsequent editor will never be able to determine if their use of the image will be fair use. If the copyright owner appears and says, yes you can use the image in this article but we do not agree with using it in that article, it would be easier if both articles (<!-- in hidden text -->) explained the rationale for fair use, then if Wikipedia wanted to say that it could use the images it would have some idea why the uses are fair use. Otherwise the material will just have to be deleted.
Alex756
--- "Alex R." alex756@nyc.rr.com wrote:
If this is going to be done it is all the more reason for the image description page to be completed with specific information.
There there needs to be a form to fill out (upon upload ) thats more than just a comment line-- something to remind people of the basic info they should get in the habit of including.
~S~
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From: "Steve Vertigum" utilitymuffinresearch2@yahoo.com
--- "Alex R." alex756@nyc.rr.com wrote:
If this is going to be done it is all the more reason for the image description page to be completed with specific information.
There there needs to be a form to fill out (upon upload ) thats more than just a comment line-- something to remind people of the basic info they should get in the habit of including.
This is a good idea and it is something that Anthere has also suggested elsewhere (do you remember where you brought this up Anthere?).
However, that does not solve the problem that each fair use must be specifically described, i.e. when one uploads an image it is available to use on many encyclopedia pages, what is needed is information _about_each_use_ that will help show that the kind of fair use is the kind that Jimbo has talked about, fair use that covers just about any GFDL downstream application of the image in an encyclopedic, informational context.
Otherwise we are going to get as crazy on the English Wikipedia about deleting images as we have become on the French Wikipedia (and perhaps elsewhere that I am unaware).
Alex756
--- "Alex R." alex756@nyc.rr.com wrote:
However, that does not solve the problem that each fair use must be specifically described, i.e. when one uploads an image it is available to use on many encyclopedia pages, what is needed is information _about_each_use_
Each use?? IANAL -- but I know when man's "law" starts contradicting God's Law.. Reason, reasonability, etc. No wonder you guys are turned off to "fair use" -- its almost untenable with that standard.
If there was (years from now) an image.wikipedia.org, that *centralized* dealing with images across all wikis, it would be easier to deal with images as a whole -- upon input. But you're saying this ideality would still not satisfy fair use--that each use of those images must be justified?
Wow. ~S~
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From: "Stevertigo" utilitymuffinresearch2@yahoo.com
.... But you're saying this ideality would still not satisfy fair use--that each use of those images must be justified?
Wow. ~S~
Bingo! Finally the ah ha moment! Merci beaucoup!
Alex756
--- "Alex R." alex756@nyc.rr.com wrote:
From: "Stevertigo" utilitymuffinresearch2@yahoo.com
.... But you're saying this ideality would still not satisfy fair use--that each use of those images must be justified?
Wow. ~S~
Bingo! Finally the ah ha moment! Merci beaucoup!
:P
Ah, but its a bittersweet moment-- and the revelation is; there truly is no reconciliation between rule of law and ist spirit after all.
:-) ~S~ I had a dog named "Bingo" once. Not really.
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From: "Stevertigo" utilitymuffinresearch2@yahoo.com
Wow. ~S~
Bingo! Finally the ah ha moment! Merci beaucoup!
:P
Ah, but its a bittersweet moment-- and the revelation is; there truly is no reconciliation between rule of law and ist spirit after all.
:-) ~S~ I had a dog named "Bingo" once. Not really.
It is those bittersweet moments that us legal beagles learn to love, that is what makes law so frustrating and fascinating. Whoever said, "the truth shall set you free" did not sit through enough jury trials.
l
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