its interesting how upset people have gotten over this minor changes issue without really making any effort to explain it to me
how about an option to have the minor changes box checked on default?
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Is anybody else getting duplicate mail messages? Zoe
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But I was getting them before I singed up for the English wiki mailing list. Zoe Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:Zoe wrote:
Is anybody else getting duplicate mail messages?
Yes, but this seems to happen when you are on more than one mailing list, and the other of the message has posted the message to more than one list.
Eclecticology
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its interesting how upset people have gotten over this minor changes issue without really making any effort to explain it to me
how about an option to have the minor changes box checked on default?
Good idea for copyeditors, and reasonably simple to do, if nobody else wants to do it, I can implement it.
Also, free of charge, here's a guide for stopping people from getting upset about what you do: 1) Stop being confrontational and silly. We don't need to take ourselves too seriously, but the project itself is not a playground. 2) Apologize to the list for your past behavior of category 1). Apologies are something only mature people are capable of, and therefore always a good demonstration. 3) Try to communicate your ideas in a reasonable fashion, arguing logically and not emotionally. Be willing to compromise. Be willing to learn.
People currently don't trust you at all and thus tend to overreact a little -- if you want them to trust you, you need to prove yourself worthy of trust. Otherwise I'm afraid you will be banned again eventually, and although I do not like the current way bans are decided, I can see that there's a line that needs to be drawn.
Regards,
Erik
Erik Moeller wrote:
its interesting how upset people have gotten over this minor changes issue without really making any effort to explain it to me
how about an option to have the minor changes box checked on default?
Good idea for copyeditors, and reasonably simple to do, if nobody else wants to do it, I can implement it.
I don't think it's such a good idea. It makes it too easy for a person to sneak in a POV change without anybody noticing. Sometimes adding the three-letter word "not" at some place in an article can substantially change a meaning, yet because it's only a single three-letter there are people who would consider that minor.
Also, free of charge, here's a guide for stopping people from getting upset about what you do:
- Stop being confrontational and silly. We don't need to take ourselves too
seriously, but the project itself is not a playground. 2) Apologize to the list for your past behavior of category 1). Apologies are something only mature people are capable of, and therefore always a good demonstration. 3) Try to communicate your ideas in a reasonable fashion, arguing logically and not emotionally. Be willing to compromise. Be willing to learn.
These are all good points. Unfortunately, when Lir made a series of minor changes to an article and saved each one separately, her critics could only respond with a whole lot of attitude thrown in. The specifics of the criticism were likely warranted; the attitude was not. There was absolutely no need to refer to threats of banning just because she caused too many entries on the Recent Changes page.
Some of her views have been a little strange, and at times she may have insisted a little too strongly about those views. I did look at the "Minoa" issue where I didn't feel knowledgeable enough to voice an opinion.
As I understand it, she was criticized there for using questionable references on the internet as sources to back opinion. That problem is not really about Lir; she represented only one small manifestation of a far more serious problem. Those who argue that since Option A receives 100,000 hits on Google, while Option B receives only 1,000 hits, Option A must be a superior option are also adding to the problem.
The much more serious problem has to to with the reliability in general of internet information. Educational tradition has been that questioning information sources is not encouraged before a student has reached university level, and even there it is a relatively recent phenomenon. I would venture so far as to say that schools have openly discouraged any kind of critical thinking; that produces a more compliant citizenry.
At 14 (if that really is Lir's age) she may not yet have acquired the skills related to the evaluation of sources. For many it takes a several failing term papers at the university level before they get the point. The prospect of people relying on internet sources is really scary.
Eclecticology
Lir wrote:
how about an option to have the minor changes box checked on default?
Almost everybody makes primarily major changes, so I don't think that adding this option would be a wise use of the developers' time. But maybe I'm wrong; if other people would use this option, then let them speak up!
-- Toby
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