From: "Yann Forget" yann@forget-me.net
Today China gverment blocked all lang. of all projet on wikimedia. How manages?
Are you sure of that ? This looks like serious bad news.
I can't get to wikipedias today with my ADSL connection located in Sichuan. I hope tomorow...
(gbog)
Now I think if the ban is still not lifted for another week, we shall have a press release about this. I agree with mav that if the whole world knows about it Chinese government will lift the ban, just like what it did to Google in 2002.
Another possible choice is to consult a lawyer in PRC. There was a case last December, when a Hong Kong reporter brought a political magazine into mainland and was confiscated by the Custom. He sued the local government and won the case. I believe that we have to fight for this freedom. If we keep quiet then they will never lift the ban.
formulax
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 01:10:00 +0800, ruimu uestc ruimu@uestc.edu.cn wrote:
From: "Yann Forget" yann@forget-me.net
Today China gverment blocked all lang. of all projet on wikimedia. How manages?
Are you sure of that ? This looks like serious bad news.
I can't get to wikipedias today with my ADSL connection located in Sichuan. I hope tomorow...
(gbog)
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
--- Jiong Sheng sheng.jiong@gmail.com wrote on Wikipedia-l:
Now I think if the ban is still not lifted for another week, we shall have a press release about this. I agree with mav that if the whole world knows about it Chinese government will lift the ban, just like what it did to Google in 2002.
I know at least Slashdot will cover the story. But whether or not the story goes beyond that is up to the news cycle at the time.
We do need to confirm that this is 1) real 2) not a mistake Otherwise we could be creating a lot of bad press for ourselves (I don't believe in the adage that there is no such thing as bad press). If we do this right, then we could at the very least garner a great deal of public support and increased awareness of the project. Hopefully that will be enough to shame the PRC into lifting the block. It is sad to think that the recent good press about the Chinese Wikipedia may have been what brought the PRC's attention to us.
Another possible choice is to consult a lawyer in PRC. There was a case last December, when a Hong Kong reporter brought a political magazine into mainland and was confiscated by the Custom. He sued the local government and won the case. I believe that we have to fight for this freedom. If we keep quiet then they will never lift the ban.
Lawyers are expensive (even pro-bono ones). So I hope this does not come to that. We could set up a Wikimedia legal defense fund to help pay the expenses of pro-bono lawyers if the need arises though.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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Daniel Mayer wrote:
--- Jiong Sheng sheng.jiong@gmail.com wrote on Wikipedia-l:
Now I think if the ban is still not lifted for another week, we shall have a press release about this. I agree with mav that if the whole world knows about it Chinese government will lift the ban, just like what it did to Google in 2002.
I know at least Slashdot will cover the story. But whether or not the story goes beyond that is up to the news cycle at the time.
We do need to confirm that this is
- real
- not a mistake
Otherwise we could be creating a lot of bad press for ourselves (I don't believe in the adage that there is no such thing as bad press). If we do this right, then we could at the very least garner a great deal of public support and increased awareness of the project. Hopefully that will be enough to shame the PRC into lifting the block. It is sad to think that the recent good press about the Chinese Wikipedia may have been what brought the PRC's attention to us.
I agree that this requires a careful and measured approach. Our primary objective should be to ensure access for users living in the PRC. "Commie bashing" or railing about the lack of civil rights in China may only convince them to tighten things up even more.
We first of all need to be sure of our facts in the matter to avoid making accusations that have no foundation in reality. A cooperative attitude can also be helpful. It would help to know just where the decision came from, and whether there is an accessible higher level bureaucrat who might overrule the decision. It may even be that their requirements are within acceptable levels; we shouldn't presume that they aren't. It would be great if the appropriate officials could be convinced that there is some benefit for the PRC as a whole in having Wikipedia available to its people.
Another possible choice is to consult a lawyer in PRC. There was a case last December, when a Hong Kong reporter brought a political magazine into mainland and was confiscated by the Custom. He sued the local government and won the case. I believe that we have to fight for this freedom. If we keep quiet then they will never lift the ban.
Lawyers are expensive (even pro-bono ones). So I hope this does not come to that. We could set up a Wikimedia legal defense fund to help pay the expenses of pro-bono lawyers if the need arises though.
Yes, they are expensive, but we are not looking at lawyers with United States style fee structures. At this point first level lawyer contact would be useful. Its purpose would be to discuss in broad terms what applicable laws and strategies are available. This does not imply that there will ever be any active court case or any other kind of formal procedure. A peaceful settlement of the issue will always be the preferred option.
Ec
--- Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
.... We first of all need to be sure of our facts in the matter to avoid making accusations that have no foundation in reality. A cooperative attitude can also be helpful. It would help to know just where the decision came from, and whether there is an accessible higher level bureaucrat who might overrule the decision. It may even be that their requirements are within acceptable levels; we shouldn't presume that they aren't. It would be great if the appropriate officials could be convinced that there is some benefit for the PRC as a whole in having Wikipedia available to its people.
The block seems to have been confirmed, but I'm still not convinced that it was entirely intentional. They could have blocked an entire IP range of spammers or porn sites and we could have been caught in the cross fire. If that is the case then this should be as simple as Jimbo writing the right person in the PRC to explain the situation.
Yes, they are expensive, but we are not looking at lawyers with United States style fee structures. At this point first level lawyer contact would be useful. Its purpose would be to discuss in broad terms what applicable laws and strategies are available. This does not imply that there will ever be any active court case or any other kind of formal procedure.
Yes, it would be great to get a probono lawyer who lives in or near the PRC.
A peaceful settlement of the issue will always be the preferred option.
Absolutely.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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