Dan, we know you don't like it. I'd appreciate some clear feedback from _other_ users on the _current_ _actual_ behavior of the code, however. Mostly what I've seen is complaints about the broken behavior in Mozilla and the old 'paste sample text at the end' in various other browsers. Those are definately unacceptable, and Erik's been working with us to make sure that the best experience will be available before this ever goes online on Wikipedia. In response to the concerns of users and other developers, these huge improvements have been made so far: * On browsers with no javascript available, a dead useless toolbar is _not_ shown * On browsers that don't support adding formatting to the selected text, sample code is no longer added willy-nilly to the end of the text. * The Mozilla "scrolls to top of text area" bug has been reported to the Mozilla dev team, and as a workaround we'll do what we can to avoid triggering the bug (for instance using the version of the code for browsers that don't support formatting the selected text at all). Erik's not forcing evil buggy code upon the populace, here. We're all working to make the best, most functional, most user-friendly code we can get. Let's please not fight over something that's not happening. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Daniel- So far I only count you and Elisabeth. Both Linux users - not exactly technology newbies. Not true - you used various versions of the toolbar. That's utter and complete bullshit. I'm very disappointed - why do you have to resort to lies to make your point? Yeah, I only made about 20 changes because I don't "listen to users." The problem is that by "listen to users" you mean that the opinion of a select few users should decide whether a feature goes live or not. I, on the other hand, argue for exposing a feature to a larger group before making a decision. The feature is not broken - the best way to test its usability is thus to activate it a couple of weeks. What exactly is your problem here? Regards, Erik