Hi,
I think Node is making a few misleading points here, most of all to do with this logo changing on the Romanian Wikipedia.
I have been at the Romanian Wikipedia since 2003, and I can say that there have been no conflicts so far with other Wikipedias (except this Moldovan one, perhaps) and that this logo-changing was not inspired by a dislike for Russians. It was rather changed by a desire to have a Romanian character on the logo of a Romanian-language encyclopedia. There was never any discussion of "we will particularly replace this symbol just because it's Cyrllic". I don't think it's right that Node use this to his advantage just because of what is in reality a coincidence.
As to automatic conversion, as Node said - it would cause a great deal of controversy, both in Romania and Moldova. In Moldova, it is seen as a symbol of Russian repression - perhaps Node doesn't see it as much because he hasn't lived through those times (neither have I - I'm not Moldovan), but a lot of Moldovans have said that so far. The controversy becomes increasingly significant when we're talking about a script that is no longer official (except for in the breakaway Transnistria, which is a dictatorship that still follows the Soviet ideals) and is in decline (in the sense that - all young Moldovans learn Latin only).
Overall, though, I'm not against the Wikipedia. It is officially biscriptal at the moment, in terms of interface, even though Latin content can't go there - instead, it is placed on the Romanian Wikipedia.
But it would be good to hear what international users think of this Wikipedia. Would it be correct to delete it? Or perhaps move the Cyrillic version to a more specific subdomain, rather than letting the mo: subdomain host only Cyrillic content?
Thanks,
Ronline
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I have been at the Romanian Wikipedia since 2003, and I can say that there have been no conflicts so far with other Wikipedias (except this Moldovan one, perhaps) and that this logo-changing was not inspired by a dislike for Russians. It was rather changed by a desire to have a Romanian character on the logo of a Romanian-language encyclopedia. There was never any discussion of "we will particularly replace this symbol just because it's Cyrllic". I don't think it's right that Node use this to his advantage just because of what is in reality a coincidence.
It's a big coincidence. If it wasn't a collective decision, who's to say it wasn't a decision of the person who made the modification to the image?
As to automatic conversion, as Node said - it would cause a great deal of controversy, both in Romania and Moldova. In Moldova, it is seen as a symbol of Russian repression - perhaps Node doesn't see it as much because he hasn't lived through those times (neither have I - I'm not Moldovan), but a lot of Moldovans have said that so far. The controversy becomes
Again, somebody's painting it as if all Moldovans hate this WP. Two Moldovans-in-Moldova so far have supported it, and no Moldovans-in-Moldova have opposed, though three Moldovans-outside-of-Moldova have.
increasingly significant when we're talking about a script that is no longer official (except for in the breakaway Transnistria, which is a dictatorship that still follows the Soviet ideals) and is in decline (in the sense that - all young Moldovans learn Latin only).
Although I agree that Transnistria is basically a dictatorship, I'd like to note that it paints itself as a democracy. However, it has been reported that one candidate received 103% of the vote in one district. :p
All young Moldovans, at least in Chisinau, will still quickly learn Russian because it's the language of the streets. Most signs in Chisinau are bilingual. Any literature from the Soviet period is in Cyrillic. Any of Russian or Ukrainian parentage will most likely learn it from family. Most educated young Moldovans will know Cyrillic, even though it's not taught in public schools.
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Wikipedia Romania (Ronline) wrote:
Hi,
I think Node is making a few misleading points here, most of all to do with this logo changing on the Romanian Wikipedia.
I have been at the Romanian Wikipedia since 2003, and I can say that there have been no conflicts so far with other Wikipedias (except this Moldovan one, perhaps) and that this logo-changing was not inspired by a dislike for Russians. It was rather changed by a desire to have a Romanian character on the logo of a Romanian-language encyclopedia. There was never any discussion of "we will particularly replace this symbol just because it's Cyrllic". I don't think it's right that Node use this to his advantage just because of what is in reality a coincidence.
As to automatic conversion, as Node said - it would cause a great deal of controversy, both in Romania and Moldova. In Moldova, it is seen as a symbol of Russian repression - perhaps Node doesn't see it as much because he hasn't lived through those times (neither have I - I'm not Moldovan), but a lot of Moldovans have said that so far. The controversy becomes increasingly significant when we're talking about a script that is no longer official (except for in the breakaway Transnistria, which is a dictatorship that still follows the Soviet ideals) and is in decline (in the sense that - all young Moldovans learn Latin only).
Overall, though, I'm not against the Wikipedia. It is officially biscriptal at the moment, in terms of interface, even though Latin content can't go there - instead, it is placed on the Romanian Wikipedia.
But it would be good to hear what international users think of this Wikipedia. Would it be correct to delete it? Or perhaps move the Cyrillic version to a more specific subdomain, rather than letting the mo: subdomain host only Cyrillic content?
I don't think that you will hear much from people who are not directly involved in Romanian/Moldovan issues. Node has a history of being very interested in language issues from all around the world, not just this one. With the volume of mail that goes through this mailing list it's understandable that most of us would prefer to avoid commenting on topics about which we know very little.
I'm not commenting o the logo issue, because I haven't seen the details.
My first impression would be to let the Cyrillicists use the mo: domain. Nostalgia for Soviet Stalinist days or the current Transnistrian dictatorship should have nothing to do with it. Propaganda only works when people listen to it, and the people whom they are trying to convince pay less attention to it than the opponents. Arguing against the Cyrillic mo: project helps to keep it alive more than anything else.
There really should be no objection to maintaing that use for mo: unless someone else has a use for that domain. I realize that some Latin script writing Moldovans like to consider their language as different from Romanian, but that the difference is not recognized at all on the Romanian side. As long as an all Cyrillic mo: is alive it will make it more difficult for those who want a Latin mo: distinct from Romanian. If you leave it alone it will probably die off eventually anyway.
Ec
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