A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter
Hoi, I hope you realise that there is more to this than meets the eye. Waerth has been doing things that were awfull. This list is not nice and I will not bother you with a complete decomfiture. Understand that I like Waerth as a person. I do admire his hard work. The fact is also that I found it necessary to vote.
I have been warned on my user page by Waerth because I dared to suggest that it would be good to take some time and reduce the number of options to vote for in a block policy to something more manageable. Some eight admins were threatened with a desysop procedure for the same reason. It is abuse of power like this that made me decide to vote.
The fact that vandals need to be dealt with does not mean that everything is allowed in this fight. It may be true that much time was wasted, but there is always another day.
I do not mind when you vote for Waerth, but when you do, please do it after having learned the reasons why it came this far in the first place.
Thanks, GerardM
On 1/17/06, Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
This is truly sad. I think we need Jimbo to declare that NL will have an arbcom to get things going. I would recommend that he appoint you as its first member. De-sysop indeed. Things must be very bad on nl if somebody I trust as much as I trust you gets desysoped there.
Maybe you should tell them that I and the board trust you so much that you have read access to the foundation PayPal account and can edit the foundation wiki. You have never abused those rights and are still very much so trusted.
Everybody on every wiki needs to know that rules *only* exist to serve our goal of creating and distributing the best encyclopedia in the world. They should *never* be used as weapons against people you happen to not like for whatever reason and they certainly do *not* exist for their own sake. That is in fact what the ignore all rules policy is all about.
-- mav
--- Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
I did make some mistakes but they were to finally get the process about sensible rules and guidelines on nl: going. They backfired. I requested to be desysopped:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_permissions#User:Waerth
Waerth/Walter
This is truly sad. I think we need Jimbo to declare that NL will have an arbcom to get things going. I would recommend that he appoint you as its first member. De-sysop indeed. Things must be very bad on nl if somebody I trust as much as I trust you gets desysoped there.
Maybe you should tell them that I and the board trust you so much that you have read access to the foundation PayPal account and can edit the foundation wiki. You have never abused those rights and are still very much so trusted.
Everybody on every wiki needs to know that rules *only* exist to serve our goal of creating and distributing the best encyclopedia in the world. They should *never* be used as weapons against people you happen to not like for whatever reason and they certainly do *not* exist for their own sake. That is in fact what the ignore all rules policy is all about.
-- mav
--- Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Whatever happened to trusting the community? When cs.wiki... umm... well, whatever it was that happened there, the mantra of "Trust Local Bureaucrats" was repeated over and over again.
Now that something is amiss at the Dutch Wikipedia, though, we decide we must intervene because We Loves Walter?
Can we try to be consistent, here, people? Please?
Mark
On 17/01/06, Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
This is truly sad. I think we need Jimbo to declare that NL will have an arbcom to get things going. I would recommend that he appoint you as its first member. De-sysop indeed. Things must be very bad on nl if somebody I trust as much as I trust you gets desysoped there.
Maybe you should tell them that I and the board trust you so much that you have read access to the foundation PayPal account and can edit the foundation wiki. You have never abused those rights and are still very much so trusted.
Everybody on every wiki needs to know that rules *only* exist to serve our goal of creating and distributing the best encyclopedia in the world. They should *never* be used as weapons against people you happen to not like for whatever reason and they certainly do *not* exist for their own sake. That is in fact what the ignore all rules policy is all about.
-- mav
--- Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin
I would like to add a few comments about the whole mess as a member, and a sysop of the nl.wp community. ([[nl:Gebruiker:Henna]])
In recent months, the dutch wikipedia has seen an increase in the numbers of borderline users, there is only a few sysops that consistently try to deal with these, these sysops do have a broad support in keeping them in check though. These borderlineusers are supporting each other wich puts the nl.wp in a new position learning to deal with them.
As a response to the prolbems that blocking these users caused we have begun to evaluate our blocking procedure, and try to draft a new one. Several people have written proposals for it. There was supposed to be a vote about the proposals. Things went haywire when trying to figure out a way to select 1 proposal.
Chronoglogically: - dec 19th: Gebruiker:Verrekijker is blocked for legal threats (by Waerth) - dec 31th: Gebruiker:Verrekijker is unblocked by sysopvote, as the block was illegal - jan 3d: A call for new guidelines on blocking registered users is announced, wich is answered by several proposals - jan 13th: A discussion on how to vote ends in a vote about more discussion about the proposals (1) - jan 15th: Gebruiker:Waerth announces desysop procedures on the moderators voting for more discussion - jan 15th: JeroenVrp removes Waerth from presscontact. - jan 15th: an impromptu vote about Waerth's trustworthiness as presscontact is organised , 29 vote pro, 7 vote contra. Waerth remains presscontact - jan 15th: a desysop for Gebruiker:Waerth is announced by Gebruiker:Zanaq, recalled because of procedural errors and a bit later reannounced by Gebruiker:Webboy - jan 15th: Gebruiker:Waerth apoliges to some sysops and retracts the desysop procedures - jan 16th: Gebruiker:Webboy retracts the desysop procedure - jan 16th: Gebruiker:Effeietsanders announces to continue with the desysop - jan 16th: Voting on desysop commences, all discussion aobut the vote is moved to the talkpage. upon commencing the vote, Effeietsanders moves hist indictment back to the voting article, Waerths rebuttal remains in the archieved discussion for the first 2 hours of voting. -jan 16th: Waerth requests desysop for himself on all projects. - jan 16th: the vote at the moment is about 40 to keep Waerth sysop, and 24 against sysop -jan 16th: at last count 3 sysops (out of 60ish have gone on wikibreak), others are considering quiting as sysop.
The nl.wp community has been trying to update the blocking guidelines for the last year, in this regard the actions of Waerth are understandable. However most users voting on more discussion wanted to simplify the final decision, try to combine similar proposals, so that only a few proposals survive to decide upon, rather then the original 9 (2 where renounced in light of other proposals already).
Finne aka henna (on en:, nl:, is:, commons:, fr:)
On 1/17/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever happened to trusting the community? When cs.wiki... umm... well, whatever it was that happened there, the mantra of "Trust Local Bureaucrats" was repeated over and over again.
Now that something is amiss at the Dutch Wikipedia, though, we decide we must intervene because We Loves Walter?
Can we try to be consistent, here, people? Please?
Mark
On 17/01/06, Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
This is truly sad. I think we need Jimbo to declare that NL will have an arbcom to get things going. I would recommend that he appoint you as its first member. De-sysop indeed. Things must be very bad on nl if somebody I trust as much as I trust you gets desysoped there.
Maybe you should tell them that I and the board trust you so much that you have read access to the foundation PayPal account and can edit the foundation wiki. You have never abused those rights and are still very much so trusted.
Everybody on every wiki needs to know that rules *only* exist to serve our goal of creating and distributing the best encyclopedia in the world. They should *never* be used as weapons against people you happen to not like for whatever reason and they certainly do *not* exist for their own sake. That is in fact what the ignore all rules policy is all about.
-- mav
--- Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my birthday. As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me. As I have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl: the trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals have been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple users have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a year. And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and further and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by warning people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum. They responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve people who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Maybe you knew early on that your track went from point A to B, but unlike you I wasn't given a map at birth!" Alyssa, "Chasing Amy" http://hekla.rave.org/cookbook.html - my crossplatform dieet/recipe app
situation confirmed :-(
On 1/18/06, Finne Boonen finne@cassia.be wrote:
I would like to add a few comments about the whole mess as a member, and a sysop of the nl.wp community. ([[nl:Gebruiker:Henna]])
In recent months, the dutch wikipedia has seen an increase in the numbers of borderline users, there is only a few sysops that consistently try to deal with these, these sysops do have a broad support in keeping them in check though. These borderlineusers are supporting each other wich puts the nl.wp in a new position learning to deal with them.
As a response to the prolbems that blocking these users caused we have begun to evaluate our blocking procedure, and try to draft a new one. Several people have written proposals for it. There was supposed to be a vote about the proposals. Things went haywire when trying to figure out a way to select 1 proposal.
Chronoglogically:
- dec 19th: Gebruiker:Verrekijker is blocked for legal threats (by Waerth)
- dec 31th: Gebruiker:Verrekijker is unblocked by sysopvote, as the
block was illegal
- jan 3d: A call for new guidelines on blocking registered users is
announced, wich is answered by several proposals
- jan 13th: A discussion on how to vote ends in a vote about more
discussion about the proposals (1)
- jan 15th: Gebruiker:Waerth announces desysop procedures on the
moderators voting for more discussion
- jan 15th: JeroenVrp removes Waerth from presscontact.
- jan 15th: an impromptu vote about Waerth's trustworthiness as
presscontact is organised , 29 vote pro, 7 vote contra. Waerth remains presscontact
- jan 15th: a desysop for Gebruiker:Waerth is announced by
Gebruiker:Zanaq, recalled because of procedural errors and a bit later reannounced by Gebruiker:Webboy
- jan 15th: Gebruiker:Waerth apoliges to some sysops and retracts the
desysop procedures
- jan 16th: Gebruiker:Webboy retracts the desysop procedure
- jan 16th: Gebruiker:Effeietsanders announces to continue with the
desysop
- jan 16th: Voting on desysop commences, all discussion aobut the vote
is moved to the talkpage. upon commencing the vote, Effeietsanders moves hist indictment back to the voting article, Waerths rebuttal remains in the archieved discussion for the first 2 hours of voting. -jan 16th: Waerth requests desysop for himself on all projects.
- jan 16th: the vote at the moment is about 40 to keep Waerth sysop,
and 24 against sysop -jan 16th: at last count 3 sysops (out of 60ish have gone on wikibreak), others are considering quiting as sysop.
The nl.wp community has been trying to update the blocking guidelines for the last year, in this regard the actions of Waerth are understandable. However most users voting on more discussion wanted to simplify the final decision, try to combine similar proposals, so that only a few proposals survive to decide upon, rather then the original 9 (2 where renounced in light of other proposals already).
Finne aka henna (on en:, nl:, is:, commons:, fr:)
On 1/17/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Whatever happened to trusting the community? When cs.wiki... umm... well, whatever it was that happened there, the mantra of "Trust Local Bureaucrats" was repeated over and over again.
Now that something is amiss at the Dutch Wikipedia, though, we decide we must intervene because We Loves Walter?
Can we try to be consistent, here, people? Please?
Mark
On 17/01/06, Daniel Mayer maveric149@yahoo.com wrote:
This is truly sad. I think we need Jimbo to declare that NL will have
an arbcom to get things
going. I would recommend that he appoint you as its first member.
De-sysop indeed. Things must be
very bad on nl if somebody I trust as much as I trust you gets
desysoped there.
Maybe you should tell them that I and the board trust you so much that
you have read access to the
foundation PayPal account and can edit the foundation wiki. You have
never abused those rights and
are still very much so trusted.
Everybody on every wiki needs to know that rules *only* exist to serve
our goal of creating and
distributing the best encyclopedia in the world. They should *never*
be used as weapons against
people you happen to not like for whatever reason and they certainly
do *not* exist for their own
sake. That is in fact what the ignore all rules policy is all about.
-- mav
--- Walter van Kalken walter@vankalken.net wrote:
A desysopping procedure against me has started on nl:
A brilliant timing btw my sysopstatus will be taken away on my
birthday.
As I have said before. If I get desysopped something breaks in me.
As I
have always done a lot for the community. It is ironic that on nl:
the
trolls can stay, as they do not even get blocked! And the one who is constantly trying to keep things going looses his modstatus.
I have tried after a year of discussing to finally get a blockpolicy going on nl: that allows blocks for more than 24 hours. 7 proposals
have
been made by 7 users. But no what do they want on nl: they want to discuss things further. Meanwhile trolls feast on nl: and multiple
users
have left already. Also an arbcom has been discussed for over a
year.
And everytime someone has a proposal they discuss further and
further
and further. NL: has become a discussionforum in which proposals are discussed, but never ever implemented. I tried to further it by
warning
people on their userpages that wikipedia is not a discussionforum.
They
responded with a desysoppingprocedure here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Afzetting_moderators
This is the worst birthday gift after over 2 years of hard work. I defended nl.wikipedia a number of times over the radio as a presscontact. everyone said I had done a good job. I now feel stupid sorry for doing such a good job. This community doesn't deserve
people
who are willing to work hard.
Waerth/Walter _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Take away their language, destroy their souls." -- Joseph Stalin _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
-- "Maybe you knew early on that your track went from point A to B, but unlike you I wasn't given a map at birth!" Alyssa, "Chasing Amy" http://hekla.rave.org/cookbook.html - my crossplatform dieet/recipe app _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
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