When I saw this post,
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:19:02 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Zhuang Wikipedia is not in Zhuang
Hi all,
I'm not sure what language it is in now, but the Zhuang Wikipedia does not appear to be in Zhuang.
A week or so ago, the user "Jienji VANG" started adding this apparently fraudulent content.
It appears to be unrelated to any of the major languages of the world. My freeware language identifier suggests that it is Afrikaans, Buginese, Kapampangan, or Tagalog although I sincerely doubt this.
Mark
I went to the Zhuang encyclopedia and looked at it. Now, I know no Zhuang, but just off the top of my head what I saw looked to me like a language that stands to Vietnamese in a relation similar to that of Estonian to Finnish. I looked at two or three of the articles that appear to be in what is passing as Zhuang (I can definitely state that they are not in Afrikaans or Tagalog, and I too strongly doubt that they are Buginese or Kapampangan, in fact a language identifier that suggests these is probably not worth using) and I checked out their histories, and I see no striking evidence that the pre-Jienji-VANG versions were in a language different from the Jienji-VANG editions.
There do appear to be two languages (or at least two widely divergent dialects with quite different orthographies) going here, though. "Quaangcí / Gvangjsih" to exemplify the contrast. Are you saying the former (much of which seems to predate JV's arrival) is not za: and the latter is? The latter language or variety seems not to use any diacritics, but apparently marks tone through h's and r's (but the former variety seems to have some of that, too, in spite of it's almost vn:-like abundance of accent marks).
See the comments by NGUYỄN Xuân Minh at the bottom of my eo: talk page: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediista_diskuto:Haruo and his rather persuasive multilingual substitution cypher hypothesis. I must figure out now how to create an index in my user page where people can add their own entries and I can jump down to them.
Seems like quite an elaborate hoax.
Haruo
Hi Ros,
For examples of "real" Zhuang, please see:
http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/ccx.htm http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2205 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=1064 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2204 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2227 http://hongdou.gxnews.com.cn/hongdou/forumcenter/forumview.asp?td=2003&t... (see the last reply on the page) http://www.kam-tai.org/languages/zhuang/materials/thestoryofhuasan/lan_09_15... http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3971 (lyrics of the song are in zhuang) http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/yuyanxlwx/71.TXT (the parts in latin letters are in zhuang) http://www.geocities.co.jp/NatureLand/3973/zhuangyu_ch09.htm http://tl.bs165.net/bbs/topic.asp?topic_id=7985 (lyrics of song Cib Bi are in Zhuang, the rest of the page is in chinese)
So, as you can see, it looks a bit strange, for example the word for "you" is "mwngz", the word for "to" is "daengz"... some people would think it's just gibberish, but it's not.
Mark
On 19/07/05, Ros' Haruo rosharuo@gmail.com wrote:\
When I saw this post,
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:19:02 -0700 From: Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Zhuang Wikipedia is not in Zhuang
Hi all,
I'm not sure what language it is in now, but the Zhuang Wikipedia does not appear to be in Zhuang.
A week or so ago, the user "Jienji VANG" started adding this apparently fraudulent content.
It appears to be unrelated to any of the major languages of the world. My freeware language identifier suggests that it is Afrikaans, Buginese, Kapampangan, or Tagalog although I sincerely doubt this.
Mark
I went to the Zhuang encyclopedia and looked at it. Now, I know no Zhuang, but just off the top of my head what I saw looked to me like a language that stands to Vietnamese in a relation similar to that of Estonian to Finnish. I looked at two or three of the articles that appear to be in what is passing as Zhuang (I can definitely state that they are not in Afrikaans or Tagalog, and I too strongly doubt that they are Buginese or Kapampangan, in fact a language identifier that suggests these is probably not worth using) and I checked out their histories, and I see no striking evidence that the pre-Jienji-VANG versions were in a language different from the Jienji-VANG editions.
There do appear to be two languages (or at least two widely divergent dialects with quite different orthographies) going here, though. "Quaangcí / Gvangjsih" to exemplify the contrast. Are you saying the former (much of which seems to predate JV's arrival) is not za: and the latter is? The latter language or variety seems not to use any diacritics, but apparently marks tone through h's and r's (but the former variety seems to have some of that, too, in spite of it's almost vn:-like abundance of accent marks).
See the comments by NGUYỄN Xuân Minh at the bottom of my eo: talk page: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediista_diskuto:Haruo and his rather persuasive multilingual substitution cypher hypothesis. I must figure out now how to create an index in my user page where people can add their own entries and I can jump down to them.
Seems like quite an elaborate hoax.
Haruo
Meet the Whole World Halfway — Learn and Use Esperanto! www.lernu.net My Website : http://www.scn.org/~lilandbr/
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Za wp user Jienji VANG is a ADSL customers from france.
[[zh:user:shizhao]]
Mark Williamson <node.ue@...> writes:
Hi Ros,
For examples of "real" Zhuang, please see:
http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/ccx.htm http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2205 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=1064 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2204 http://rauz.net/list.asp?id=2227 http://hongdou.gxnews.com.cn/hongdou/forumcenter/forumview.asp?
td=2003&topic_id=198372&pagenum=2
(see the last reply on the page) http://www.kam-
tai.org/languages/zhuang/materials/thestoryofhuasan/lan_09_15.htm
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3971 (lyrics of the song are in zhuang) http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/yuyanxlwx/71.TXT (the parts in latin letters are in zhuang) http://www.geocities.co.jp/NatureLand/3973/zhuangyu_ch09.htm http://tl.bs165.net/bbs/topic.asp?topic_id=7985 (lyrics of song Cib Bi are in Zhuang, the rest of the page is in chinese)
So, as you can see, it looks a bit strange, for example the word for "you" is "mwngz", the word for "to" is "daengz"... some people would think it's just gibberish, but it's not.
Mark
The zhwp user Flsxx life is in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. He understand some Zhuang language. He say, that I did not see on Latin letter of alphabet the mark adjust of, seeing add behind in the single phrase only"-" of, and have a lot of syllables end with the j and z. Zhuang can according to English or the Chinese language Pinyin of read that the method reads out, Guangxian can hear understand generally. But writing here I majorities did not see, and have of can't be like Zhuang language pronounces so. The Zhuang language of" Guangxi" is "Gvangjsih" or "Gvangsis-", but the article appeared the "Quaangcí" inside, I understood not too. Can see renminbi, have the Zhuang up.
[[zh:user:shizhao]]
Flsxx say:
I am not a native Zhuang speaker, but I live in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region of China, home of the majority of Zhuang people where Zhuang scripts can be seen in lots of places, including official signs and governmental documents, so I know some Zhuang words. I have never seen those scripts found on za.wikipedia with accent marks. A lot of Zhuang words/syllables actually end with "j" or "z", for example, Gvangjsih but not Quaangcí. I can understand many Zhuang words by reading them in the fashion of Pinyin or English, but most words on za.wikipedia are not apprehensible to me, indeed they look and sound very foreign. So I personally feel that, za.wikipedia is not currently written in correct Zhuang.
[[zh:user:shizhao]]
For the Sinophones among us, I will include the original Chinese for whatever interest it may serve. (Flsxx's message was translated by a separate user)
���������ڏV���������΅^��Ҳ�܉���Ҋ���Z���V���^�ȵ������C�P���ƶ��Љ��Z�������Լ�ʹ�Ҳ��lj����ˣ������ZҲ�J�RһЩ������Ҋ�^�ĉ��Z���v�����ƺ��]��Ҋ�^��������ĸ������{�ģ����lj��ėlĿ�����У���ֻҊ�^�چ�������ӡ�-���ģ������кܶ�������j��z�Yβ�����҉��Ŀ�������Ӣ�Z���ߝh�Zƴ�����x���x���������c��ƽԒ��һ������V�������܉� ���ġ������@�e�������҅s���]��Ҋ�^�������е��ƺ���������Ҋ�^�ĵĉ��Z�ǘӰl�����Ҳ�̫ӛ�á��V�����ĉ��Z��Gvangjsih߀��Gvangsi-������ƴ����s���@�ӣ������ǗlĿ�e����F��Quaangc�����ҾͲ�̫�����ˡ���ҿ���������ų��������������Љ��ġ�������Ҋ�⣬�H��������
Mark
On 20/07/05, shizhao shizhao@gmail.com wrote:
Flsxx say:
I am not a native Zhuang speaker, but I live in Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region of China, home of the majority of Zhuang people where Zhuang scripts can be seen in lots of places, including official signs and governmental documents, so I know some Zhuang words. I have never seen those scripts found on za.wikipedia with accent marks. A lot of Zhuang words/syllables actually end with "j" or "z", for example, Gvangjsih but not Quaangc��. I can understand many Zhuang words by reading them in the fashion of Pinyin or English, but most words on za.wikipedia are not apprehensible to me, indeed they look and sound very foreign. So I personally feel that, za.wikipedia is not currently written in correct Zhuang.
[[zh:user:shizhao]]
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