Hello again,
I also wanted to make some other small remarks but thought it best to put them in a separate mail.
About the lay out of the pages: I usually read Wikipedia with a small font and in that case the header becomes a lot of white space because it stays the same height because of the Wikipedia logo (which I like very much, btw.). If the logo would be reduced to half the size then the header would consume far less space.
About the mark-up language: I've seen some request for more mark-up features and even full HTML and XML. Since I'm very fond of the WikiWiki-concept this sends shivers down my spine. I would actually vote for the opposite, i.e., to abandon all HTML mark-up and even those that only looks like HTML. For a good example look at what the mark-up languages are on MoinMoin or PhpWiki. An alternative mark-up for tables, for example, would have prevented problems such as there were with incorrect HTML on the page for Quaternions.
This also brings me to another issue. Shouldn't there be a definitive thourgh formal description of the syntax of the mark-up language (in for example BNF) and its semantics? They are trying to do something like that at PhpWiki at the moment. (http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/FormalWikiGrammar) If such a thing had existed, would that not have helped Magnus? I also feel it is a point of principle because it would make the content of Wikipedia more open and usable for other people who would also like to write software that operates on its contents, or for us if we want to convert old content with old mark-up to a newer mark-up. I'm willing to invest some time in such a description if some people agree with me.
On reporting bugs: I'm confused by the three pages for reporting bugs. I understand the separate page for the "minor" issues but why are the other two (the usual Wikipedia bugs pags and the PHP script bug reports page) not merged? The bugs for the usemod script should of course be checked if they still apply, and if not then filtered out. Has this not been done because nobody has yet taken the trouble (or the responsibility), or is there another reason?
By the way, if I sound critical, I didn't mean to. I think the step to a database-based Wikipedia is a step of major importance and I am amazed at the amount of time and effort that you guys have spent on this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Kind regards,
-- Jan Hidders
Jan Hidders wrote:
This also brings me to another issue. Shouldn't there be a definitive thourgh formal description of the syntax of the mark-up language (in for example BNF) and its semantics?
Yes, there "should" be! If there's any support I can lend to a working group that would seek to do such a thing, just let me know.
Has this not been done because nobody has yet taken the trouble (or the responsibility), or is there another reason?
No, that's the reason. :-)
By the way, if I sound critical, I didn't mean to. I think the step to a database-based Wikipedia is a step of major importance and I am amazed at the amount of time and effort that you guys have spent on this. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
You're welcome, and the kind comments are most appreciated.
I've been grumpy with a few people over the past few days, because I think some people prefer only to complain rather than to _do_. One person went so far as to suggest that my praise of Magnus was somehow meant to be _ironic_! :-) It wasn't. Magnus lives on the other side of the world, and I get bugfix patches from him at midnight or later, his time. That's astounding.
I like it when people contribute ideas, too! So it is not good of me to be grumpy when people suggest ideas. But I *love* it when people get involved with the code, for example Brion Vibber.
--Jimbo
From: "Jimmy Wales" jwales@bomis.com
Jan Hidders wrote:
This also brings me to another issue. Shouldn't there be a definitive thourgh formal description of the syntax of the mark-up language (in for example BNF) and its semantics?
Yes, there "should" be! If there's any support I can lend to a working
group
that would seek to do such a thing, just let me know.
Ok. I'll try to come up with a first proposal by next weekend.
-- Jan Hidders
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org