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Wouter Steenbeek

18 Jun 2005 18 Jun '05

10:28 a.m.

Dear fellow list subscribers, Yesterday I had the unpleasant experience that Mark Williamson scolded me for "Censor" and "Thought police". The reason was that I had deleted some of the requests on the Requests for new languages page on meta (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages), and subsequently he placed most of them back, along with some other ones that had been removed by long, and not by me. As a matter of facts, I got /furious/ and if Mark had stood right before me I would have spit into his face. Later however, he eludicated the reason why he placed them back, and we seem to agree on more things than I thought at first. The page /is/ really getting overloaded with requests and becomes too long. The difference was, he wanted to keep them anyway. I may opinion, the right solution is to cut-and-paste them to an archive, newly to be created. I could very well create it right now, but thanks to Mark's great action I am unsure whether this wil be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Incompetent, inautoritive censor and thought police Wouter Steenbeek. Btw: it seems perhaps a little inappropriate to discuss this meta topic on the Wikipedia mailing list, but since the topic is realted to the creation of new Wikipedias I took the liberty to post it here. _________________________________________________________________ Speel online games via MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/

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James R. Johnson

18 Jun 18 Jun

8:27 p.m.

If the wiki request gets past a certain date with no action, it seems to make sense to move it to an archive. Just need a policy for that, if there isn't one already. James -----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces(a)Wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@Wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Wouter Steenbeek Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:28 AM To: wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Requests page Dear fellow list subscribers, Yesterday I had the unpleasant experience that Mark Williamson scolded me for "Censor" and "Thought police". The reason was that I had deleted some of the requests on the Requests for new languages page on meta (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages), and subsequently he placed most of them back, along with some other ones that had been removed by long, and not by me. As a matter of facts, I got /furious/ and if Mark had stood right before me I would have spit into his face. Later however, he eludicated the reason why he placed them back, and we seem to agree on more things than I thought at first. The page /is/ really getting overloaded with requests and becomes too long. The difference was, he wanted to keep them anyway. I may opinion, the right solution is to cut-and-paste them to an archive, newly to be created. I could very well create it right now, but thanks to Mark's great action I am unsure whether this wil be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Incompetent, inautoritive censor and thought police Wouter Steenbeek. Btw: it seems perhaps a little inappropriate to discuss this meta topic on the Wikipedia mailing list, but since the topic is realted to the creation of new Wikipedias I took the liberty to post it here. _________________________________________________________________ Speel online games via MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

Wouter Steenbeek

19 Jun 19 Jun

8:09 a.m.

...

If the wiki request gets past a certain date with no action, it seems to make sense to move it to an archive. Just need a policy for that, if there isn't one already.

There isn't one, AFAIK, and that must be just the cause of our quarrel... Incompetent inauthoritive thought police Wouter S. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Webmessenger overal en altijd beschikbaar http://webmessenger.msn.com/

Mark Williamson

8:36 p.m.

Hi Wouter, "Thought police" refers not to your removal of requests, but rather your removal of individual comments. Which you did do. Mark On 18/06/05, Wouter Steenbeek <musiqolog(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE

Wouter Steenbeek

8:54 p.m.

...

Hi Wouter, "Thought police" refers not to your removal of requests, but rather your removal of individual comments. Which you did do.

and "censor" did refer to removing requests as far as I can judge. W.

...

Mark On 18/06/05, Wouter Steenbeek <musiqolog(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear fellow list subscribers, Yesterday I had the unpleasant experience that Mark Williamson scolded

for "Censor" and "Thought police". The reason was that I had deleted

some of

the requests on the Requests for new languages page on meta (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages), and subsequently he placed most of them back, along with some other ones

that

had been removed by long, and not by me. As a matter of facts, I got /furious/ and if Mark had stood right before

I would have spit into his face. Later however, he eludicated the reason

why

he placed them back, and we seem to agree on more things than I thought

first. The page /is/ really getting overloaded with requests and becomes

too

long. The difference was, he wanted to keep them anyway. I may opinion, the right solution is to cut-and-paste them to an

archive,

newly to be created. I could very well create it right now, but thanks

Mark's great action I am unsure whether this wil be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Incompetent, inautoritive censor and thought police Wouter Steenbeek. Btw: it seems perhaps a little inappropriate to discuss this meta topic

the Wikipedia mailing list, but since the topic is realted to the

creation

of new Wikipedias I took the liberty to post it here. _________________________________________________________________ Speel online games via MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/ _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l(a)Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l

_________________________________________________________________ Gebruik MSN Webmessenger op je werk en op school http://webmessenger.msn.com/

Mark Williamson

9:06 p.m.

Yes, since a few of the Wikipedias you removed weren't because they were old or because they failed, but because you decided they were "rediculous". Mark On 19/06/05, Wouter Steenbeek <musiqolog(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Wouter, "Thought police" refers not to your removal of requests, but rather your removal of individual comments. Which you did do.

and "censor" did refer to removing requests as far as I can judge. W.

Mark On 18/06/05, Wouter Steenbeek <musiqolog(a)hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear fellow list subscribers, Yesterday I had the unpleasant experience that Mark Williamson scolded

for "Censor" and "Thought police". The reason was that I had deleted

some of

the requests on the Requests for new languages page on meta (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages), and subsequently he placed most of them back, along with some other ones

that

had been removed by long, and not by me. As a matter of facts, I got /furious/ and if Mark had stood right before

I would have spit into his face. Later however, he eludicated the reason

why

he placed them back, and we seem to agree on more things than I thought

first. The page /is/ really getting overloaded with requests and becomes

too

long. The difference was, he wanted to keep them anyway. I may opinion, the right solution is to cut-and-paste them to an

archive,

newly to be created. I could very well create it right now, but thanks

the Wikipedia mailing list, but since the topic is realted to the

creation

_________________________________________________________________ Gebruik MSN Webmessenger op je werk en op school http://webmessenger.msn.com/

-- SI HOC LEGERE SCIS NIMIVM ERVDITIONIS HABES QVANTVM MATERIAE MATERIETVR MARMOTA MONAX SI MARMOTA MONAX MATERIAM POSSIT MATERIARI ESTNE VOLVMEN IN TOGA AN SOLVM TIBI LIBET ME VIDERE

Wouter Steenbeek

20 Jun 20 Jun

8:14 a.m.

...

Yes, since a few of the Wikipedias you removed weren't because they were old or because they failed, but because you decided they were "rediculous".

And few did not agree with me. Judge yourself: Pig Latin, Parseltongue, Silbo Gomero, Simple German, Sindarin (which /nota bene/ both had my support but FAILED!), and a hell of a lot of mainly African languages being placed months ago, supported by NO-ONE, posted anonymously and even without any discussion! W. _________________________________________________________________ Nooit ongewenste berichten ontvangen: gebruik MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.nl/

Anthere

12:07 a.m.

Talking about removal... Mark... the request for permission was stating artificial languages are perfectly acceptable. Aphaia added a paragraph which reflected better the current most agreed upon idea on the topic, which is precisely that creation of artificial languages may indeed ... just not happen. You removed Aphaia comments. I placed them back, slightly rephrased. I hope my rephrasing is acceptable to you. But please, admit that the community generally do not share your opinion on the matter of artificial languages... and that these pages should reflect the reality of what is happening... rather than what you hope should happen. Writing down a misrepresentation will not help, but to confuse people. ant By the way... why does a foundation-wide vote exactly mean ? I must confess I am a bit worried to see you make many changes to this page. Generally, you confess opinions on the matter of new languages which are significantly different from community opinion... and I would prefer you avoid removing to many comments. For example : http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages&… I confess I forgot about the Foundation wide vote on the matter of Some languages that have been decided are too similar to another language include a proposed [[:en:Filipino language|Filipino]] wiki (redundant with [[:en:Tagalog language|Tagalog]]), [[:en:Basel German|Basel German]] wiki (redundant with [[:en:Alemannic language|Alemannic]]), East German wiki (redundant with [[:en:German language|German]]). Mark Williamson a écrit:

...

Hi Wouter, "Thought police" refers not to your removal of requests, but rather your removal of individual comments. Which you did do. Mark

Anthere

12:12 a.m.

Anthere a écrit:

...

Talking about removal... Mark... the request for permission was stating artificial languages are perfectly acceptable.

request for new languages of course... sigh (being spoiled by steward duties :-))

Mark Williamson

12:41 a.m.

...

Actually, as you can see from my vote at [[Artificial languages equal rights]], you are right that the majority do not share my opinion. But they also don't share Aphaia's (which is the same as mine): the majority believe that they should in fact get equal treatment.

...

ant By the way... why does a foundation-wide vote exactly mean ? I must confess I am a bit worried to see you make many changes to this page. Generally, you confess opinions on the matter of new languages which are significantly different from community opinion... and I would prefer you avoid removing to many comments. For example : http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages&… I confess I forgot about the Foundation wide vote on the matter of Some languages that have been decided are too similar to another language include a proposed [[:en:Filipino language|Filipino]] wiki (redundant with [[:en:Tagalog language|Tagalog]]), [[:en:Basel German|Basel German]] wiki (redundant with [[:en:Alemannic language|Alemannic]]), East German wiki (redundant with [[:en:German language|German]]).

No, no, I was talking about artificial languages. See [[m:Artificial languages equal rights]] (a meta page). The majority disagrees with the opinion shared by both Aphaia and myself that artificial languages should not get Wikipedias. "have been decided are too similar to another language" section I removed, because by whom has it been decided? East German surely had a number of comments saying it was stupid, but there was also a comment saying that it was ambiguous. Filipino is a little bit different from Tagalog in certain ways, but it had too few comments for anything to have been "decided" even by popular opinion. Baseldytsch was never completely resolved, though there was not a majority in favour of its creation. For my own opinion on those: I don't think there should be a separate East German or Tagalog Wikipedia, but I think that maybe there should be a separate Baseldytsch WP. Mark

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Anthere
James R. Johnson
Mark Williamson
Wouter Steenbeek