Could we remove the rest of "wikipedians segregated into categories" pages too? I don't like any of them, for the same reason. If people can assert on the Wikipedians pages that they are vegetarian, mac users, pagan or gay, why not assert their opposition to american imperialism?
How are they any different from the geographical Wikipedian pages? I don't see how asserting I'm Queer is any different from asserting I'm Canadian.
Matt
Matt M. wrote:
Could we remove the rest of "wikipedians segregated into categories" pages too? I don't like any of them, for the same reason. If people can assert on the Wikipedians pages that they are vegetarian, mac users, pagan or gay, why not assert their opposition to american imperialism?
How are they any different from the geographical Wikipedian pages? I don't see how asserting I'm Queer is any different from asserting I'm Canadian.
Matt
Sure. But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
--- tarquin tarquin@planetunreal.com wrote:
Matt M. wrote:
Could we remove the rest of "wikipedians
segregated into categories"
pages too? I don't like any of them, for the same
reason.
If people can assert on the Wikipedians pages that
they are vegetarian,
mac users, pagan or gay, why not assert their
opposition to american
imperialism?
How are they any different from the geographical
Wikipedian pages? I don't
see how asserting I'm Queer is any different from
asserting I'm Canadian.
Matt
Sure. But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
They are not being prevented. They can do so on their talk page. Ultimate pov place...
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tarquin tarquin@planetunreal.com writes:
Matt M. wrote:
How are they any different from the geographical Wikipedian pages? I don't see how asserting I'm Queer is any different from asserting I'm Canadian.
Sure. But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
Because of the "Anti". Enlisting as a queer user says nothing about your attitude about non-queer people. Positive categories are fine (ecologists, human right or peace activists, atheist, christian or muslim), negative categories are evil: "anti-christian", "antisemite", because they don't say only something about the self-categorized person but also insult other people.
greetings, elian
elian wrote:
But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
Because of the "Anti". Enlisting as a queer user says nothing about your attitude about non-queer people. Positive categories are fine (ecologists, human right or peace activists, atheist, christian or muslim), negative categories are evil: "anti-christian", "antisemite", because they don't say only something about the self-categorized person but also insult other people.
That's exactly why I had the "Anti-American users" page deleted (which Lir instantly identified as "vandalism"). People who are "anti" often don't know a better alternative, or else they could say they're "pro"-something ;-) Besides, having an anti-America page on an American server does discredit itself somewhat...
Magnus
At 2002-11-11 14:45 +0100, Magnus Manske wrote:
elian wrote:
But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
Because of the "Anti". Enlisting as a queer user says nothing about your attitude about non-queer people. Positive categories are fine (ecologists, human right or peace activists, atheist, christian or muslim), negative categories are evil: "anti-christian", "antisemite", because they don't say only something about the self-categorized person but also insult other people.
That's exactly why I had the "Anti-American users" page deleted (which Lir instantly identified as "vandalism"). People who are "anti" often don't know a better alternative, or else they could say they're "pro"-something ;-) Besides, having an anti-America page on an American server does discredit itself somewhat...
So it's okay to be pro Osama bin Laden, but bad to be anti American? ;-)
Greetings, Jaap
PS. I am neither. I'm more against digest readers in general and especially those who respond to messages without changing the subject header. ;-)
Jaap van Ganswijk wrote:
So it's okay to be pro Osama bin Laden, but bad to be anti American? ;-)
OK, let's open a pro-Osama page. Once all have signed in (especially americans), I'll be happy to forward the URL to the FBI. I'm sure they'll have shut down wikipedia in no time ;-)
Seriously, while geographic location pages for users are surely OK, political statements etc. have *no* use at all on an encyclopedia, with the possible exception of a "list of expert users" for some topic. "wikipedia:Muslim users" might serve a function. Your *views* should be kept either to your user page or to the meta, where we already have several "my view on life"-style articles.
Magnus
Magnus Manske wrote:
Jaap van Ganswijk wrote:
So it's okay to be pro Osama bin Laden, but bad to be anti American? ;-)
OK, let's open a pro-Osama page. Once all have signed in (especially americans), I'll be happy to forward the URL to the FBI. I'm sure they'll have shut down wikipedia in no time ;-)
If we logically pursue the position of the anti-anti forces a pro-Osama page would be fine but an anti-Osama page would be un-Wikipedian ;-) Ec
elian wrote:
tarquin tarquin@planetunreal.com writes:
Matt M. wrote:
How are they any different from the geographical Wikipedian pages? I don't see how asserting I'm Queer is any different from asserting I'm Canadian.
Sure. But then why are users being prevented from asserting their opposition to the US in its current state as a polluting warmonger ruled by an oil baron despot?
Because of the "Anti". Enlisting as a queer user says nothing about your attitude about non-queer people. Positive categories are fine (ecologists, human right or peace activists, atheist, christian or muslim), negative categories are evil: "anti-christian", "antisemite", because they don't say only something about the self-categorized person but also insult other people.
I'm prepared to tolerate the "anti-" pages. If people want to paint targets on their foreheads for everybody else to shoot at, I don't think that the rest of us need to jump in to prevent their suicide. People who choose to put their names on these lists need to know that being there may say something to the rest of us about their credibility. There can even be several pages that seem to say the same thing (anti-american/anti-yankee or anti-gay/anti-queer/anti-pervert) with each expressing a different perspective on the subject.
If some of the sillier debates can be marginalized to these personal anti-pages, the more serious contributors are likely to ignore them completely, no matter how offensive they get. Individual user pages don't quite do the job for the people on these pages; they often need to feel that they are a part of a group, even if it is a group of one.
Eclecticology
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