"Peter Gervai" grin@tolna.net schrieb:
I can talk from experience.
HU was existing since 1991, and contained 5 pages (when I last counted). One main page with dead links, 1 page with real, short content, and the others varying from "hehehehe" to "*** your *** *** mother".
1991? Sounds improbable, given that the Wikipedia project as a whole only exists since 2001.
I convinced brion to flush it down the toilet and start again, and invested considerable amount of time to get it started. Now, with 5 or so permanent editors it is alive and probable won't die anymore.
What a new language needs is more than zero permanent editor with dedication to create as much articles that makes it look like a worthwile waste of time for the people walking nearby. I'd say without 3 dedicated editors (friends preferably) a new language should not be started. It is probably going to get extinct soon, because there are at least 50 articles required to be created before people consider it serious.
And a single person writing will likely give up before that point is reached, while a small group will tend to give the positive feedback that makes people continue. On the other hand, often the first group will come from single persons who just arrived at approximately the same time, so I would still like not to discourage single people from editing a new language Wikipedia.
Perhaps we could have people from a 'related' language keep an eye on such small languages. A number of Dutch speakers (among which yours not so humbly) have helped the Frisian Wikipedia to start up in that way, and I think some French did with Occitan (?). The idea is to welcome people on the 'small' Wikipedia in the same way one would do on the 'big' one - say hello, wikify their contributions etcetera.
This way new contributors might find themselves in a 'spread bed', and be more likely to stay long enough that a second and third one has come in between.
Andre Engels
On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 09:55:00AM +0000, Andre Engels wrote:
"Peter Gervai" grin@tolna.net schrieb:
I can talk from experience.
HU was existing since 1991, and contained 5 pages (when I last counted). One main page with dead links, 1 page with real, short content, and the others varying from "hehehehe" to "*** your *** *** mother".
1991? Sounds improbable, given that the Wikipedia project as a whole only exists since 2001.
typo, naturally 2001. (I concentrated on the last '1' :))
I convinced brion to flush it down the toilet and start again, and invested considerable amount of time to get it started. Now, with 5 or so permanent editors it is alive and probable won't die anymore.
What a new language needs is more than zero permanent editor with dedication to create as much articles that makes it look like a worthwile waste of time for the people walking nearby. I'd say without 3 dedicated editors (friends preferably) a new language should not be started. It is probably going to get extinct soon, because there are at least 50 articles required to be created before people consider it serious.
And a single person writing will likely give up before that point is reached,
You're free to argue with reality, I guess. Who am I to force you otherwise?
while a small group will tend to give the positive feedback that makes people continue. On the other hand, often the first group will come from single persons who just arrived at approximately the same time, so I would still like not to discourage single people from editing a new language Wikipedia.
Starting them, not editing them.
You seem to have missed my point. I wanted to share that people may not be aware that starting(!) a new language requires plenty of time and efforts. Having a half-created new language actually may _discourage_ people ("oh, another wiki with stupid texts, the 13th this week, ok lets see that porn site again").
Probably some of us was at the start of a new wikipedia. Some of people who's not here around anymore have started one and got bored. The first group may share how it has happened. I just tried to tell about the latter and what could have happened, and how to prevent it from happening again, and again.
Perhaps we could have people from a 'related' language keep an eye on such small languages. A number of Dutch speakers (among which yours not so humbly) have helped the Frisian Wikipedia to start up in that way, and I think some French did with Occitan (?). The idea is to welcome people on the 'small' Wikipedia in the same way one would do on the 'big' one - say hello, wikify their contributions etcetera.
Sounds easy if you start a language which is largely the same as an other one (defeats the purpose of having a separate wikipedia for me, but since hungarian doesn't really have such language siblings, I cannot really judge).
On the other hand how many of you could help in the hungarian, basque or tamil wikipedia? And I could pull up other obscure examples (like lojban and other visibly dead 'pedias) where the average Joe U.S. Editor cannot help.
This way new contributors might find themselves in a 'spread bed', and be more likely to stay long enough that a second and third one has come in between.
Good luck in contributing to toki pona wikipedia. :)
peter
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