As far as "very young contributor", I think it is not fair to judge my actions only by my age...
I think the point Jens Ropers was making is that your age and inexperience should mitigate the impropriety of your actions.
I would recommend learning two new skills that will make your work with other wikipedians more rewarding and successful. 1) wait a day before posting a reply, and 2) always approach other people's posts with an attitude that says "I understand you have something valuable to say, and I'm sure I could learn a lot from you." If you do these two things, I'll bet you'll find that people are much more open to what you have to say.
Another funny thing about resistance is that the more you push the more people resist. This cycle can keep going for a long time, but it requires that both sides keep pushing. If you stop fighting and work on some problems that both of you care about, you will often find that resistance melts away.
--Mark Christensen
Mark Christensen a écrit:
As far as "very young contributor", I think it is not fair to judge my actions only by my age...
I think the point Jens Ropers was making is that your age and inexperience should mitigate the impropriety of your actions.
I would recommend learning two new skills that will make your work with other wikipedians more rewarding and successful. 1) wait a day before posting a reply, and 2) always approach other people's posts with an attitude that says "I understand you have something valuable to say, and I'm sure I could learn a lot from you." If you do these two things, I'll bet you'll find that people are much more open to what you have to say.
Another funny thing about resistance is that the more you push the more people resist. This cycle can keep going for a long time, but it requires that both sides keep pushing. If you stop fighting and work on some problems that both of you care about, you will often find that resistance melts away.
--Mark Christensen
You are so right ! :-)
Really, honestly, do you think I hadn't already heard that? I'm 15; if I feel I need to know "new skills" regarding something, I know very well how to ask and I do. And as a piece of advice to you, many people - myself included only when the advice is being dumped on me by just about everybody by the truckload - get upset when you give them advice they have not asked for explicitly.
While I do appreciate advice, I find it extremely annoying that everybody seems to think I need heaps and heaps of it. Frankly I am getting more than a little irritated over that.
Of course I realise that nobody (ok, maybe a couple of people who know very well who they are but whose names I shall not mention) has anything but the best intentions when they give advice to me at least in this situation (and of course in most others), but honestly it is really being dumped on me, basically the same 7 or so things over and over, in much larger quantities than I actually need, want, or can accept graciously even if I try (seriously, to not reply to every single piece of advice people are giving me now with "Heard it. Now sht up and leave me alone" is taking quite a bit of effort at this point in time, not because I have anger management issues but because this is really getting out of hand).
And back to the main topic, similarly while most of the advice that I have received has been given with nothing but the best intentions but is at ths point coming across as rude, patronising, unnessecary and a waste of my and others time, my actions which are being discussed (and reprimanded by just about everybody under the sun, often way more than once by the same person) were taken in nothing but the best of faith, and it did not occur that they would be received this way or that they would cause so much trouble and anger and whatnot for others, for had such occured to me beforehand I would most definitely have not done what I did.
Of course it's probably very difficult for many to see why I'm becoming so distraught over what seems like a couple of bits of advice from a few people on the ML, but it's not just what's here but what's in #wikipedia, in private e-mail correspondence, in PMs, and teh like. (I have not yet received any "snail mail" regarding this issue) Of course not everybody here who has given me advice was aware that I have been flooded with advice recently, so rather than telling people they shouldn'tve done something that they did and with only the best of intentions and rather than screaming and yelling at them about it, I am telling now anybody else who is perhaps thinking of giving me some advice, in advance: *please*, no more advice for the next couple of days, especially if it's regarding this particular issue, unless I indicate explicitly that I want it.
Thank you.
--node
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:45:11 -0400, Mark Christensen mchristensen@humantech.com wrote:
As far as "very young contributor", I think it is not fair to judge my actions only by my age...
I think the point Jens Ropers was making is that your age and inexperience should mitigate the impropriety of your actions.
I would recommend learning two new skills that will make your work with other wikipedians more rewarding and successful. 1) wait a day before posting a reply, and 2) always approach other people's posts with an attitude that says "I understand you have something valuable to say, and I'm sure I could learn a lot from you." If you do these two things, I'll bet you'll find that people are much more open to what you have to say.
Another funny thing about resistance is that the more you push the more people resist. This cycle can keep going for a long time, but it requires that both sides keep pushing. If you stop fighting and work on some problems that both of you care about, you will often find that resistance melts away.
--Mark Christensen
Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@Wikimedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
Mark Williamson wrote:
While I do appreciate advice, I find it extremely annoying that everybody seems to think I need heaps and heaps of it. Frankly I am getting more than a little irritated over that.
You apparently spent from 02:48 to 04:32, nearly 2 hours, vandalizing the tokipona wikipedia, thus requiring Angela to waste time reverting your changes. You may find it annoying to have that sort of behavior result in people giving you advice, but you're lucky it doesn't get you shunned or banned from the project.
--Jimbo
1. It was in good faith. I spent almost 2 hours making good faith contributions which I am now being criticised for. Of course they were bad and caused a lot of trouble and I would not do it again, but I didn't know that at the time.
2. Shunning/banning is an administrative action (I was already banned for a bit), giving advice is not. I believe I have noted before that I will accept any administrative action that may result from this gracefully, ie when I found out Raul had banned me I didn't run around screaming and crying like some people have demanding to be unbanned.
--node
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:18:55 -0700, Jimmy (Jimbo) Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Mark Williamson wrote:
While I do appreciate advice, I find it extremely annoying that everybody seems to think I need heaps and heaps of it. Frankly I am getting more than a little irritated over that.
You apparently spent from 02:48 to 04:32, nearly 2 hours, vandalizing the tokipona wikipedia, thus requiring Angela to waste time reverting your changes. You may find it annoying to have that sort of behavior result in people giving you advice, but you're lucky it doesn't get you shunned or banned from the project.
--Jimbo
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