From Ron (the text after the greaterthan signs is mine):

"> Hi Ron,

Unfortunately, it seems that these orthographic changes you've introduced aren't accepted. However, the Platt Wikipedia is currently in a very malleable state, so it's quite possible that in the future, orthographic changes will be accepted.

Thanks. Hopefully this will be the case. The reaction, unfortunately, seems to corroborate the allegation of lacking insight and competence that people are talking (and joking) about outside Wikipedia, and this is not something that stands the Wikipedia movement in good stead. Wikipedia deserves better.

Thanks for the effort!"

Seems to again corroborate what I've been saying.

Mark

On 10/07/05, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:

Slomox, how would you know whether or not it is written in a corrupted form of Low Saxon? IT ISN'T YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE!

It's not mine either, but I was told by R. F. Hahn that you guys are using Fernsehplatt, ie Platt with Hochdeutsch grammar. He is a native speaker, and you aren't. So who should we believe here? Him, or you?

A recap of all the major players in this arguments:

• Me, with a level of nds-0. Maybe able to understand nds-1, but not speak it.
• Servien, with a level of nds-3. Not a native speaker.
• HeikoEvermann, with a level of nds-3. Not a native speaker, but an

admin and very bossy and authoritarian at that.

• Slomox, with a level of ???. Not a native speaker.
• Waerth, with a level of ???. Not a native speaker.
• Wouter, with a level of ???. Maybe a native speaker.

So, basically nobody here is a native speaker, except maybe Wouter? Well, why are we even doing this then? A new Wikipedia should never be created without a native speaker. So even if nds-nl IS ever to be created, there should be a native speaker first.

Mark

On 10/07/05, Marcus Buck wiki@marcusbuck.org wrote:

...

Mark Williamson wrote:

...

Hmm... according to the ISO, "nds" does not include East Low German. Only Low Saxon. Seems this Wikipedia is not in accordance...

Plattdüütsch covers the non-frankish parts of Low German, but there is no ISO code for this portion. I don't know the discussion held when creating nds.wikipedia, but I think it was intended to cover this portion, but the code nds was chosen, because he was the best-matching code therefore. It would be silly to separate East Low German and Low Saxon, because they are closely related.

Servien Ilaino wrote:

...

You are very wrong in saying (at least I think so) that in Germany are the most "important" dialects of Low Saxon...

Important is not the right word, yes (sometimes the correct English words are lacking).

...

The reason why Dutch speakers don't contribute is because the writing system is completely incomprehensible!

Long time no writing system was given and nevertheless any Dutch contributed.

It is not possible to write an Low Saxon/Plattdüütsch/Low German whatever wikipedia understandable to all speakers in all parts of the Netherlands and Germany without inventing a common writing and a common standard for the use of words not common. But this invention can't be task of a wikipedia, but must be based on a broad consensus in language community. Therefore we need two projects for the main varieties Dutch-influenced and German-influenced Low Saxon. (coming back to the original issue)

I hope nobody will think anymore, nds.wikipedia is mainly written in a corrupted form of Low Saxon, this is not true.

Slomox (Marcus Buck)

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