The time has come to present the ==Header== in a more modest type face. People are beginning to use it consistently, but it is still godawful big and I am tired of apologizing for it every time I write about how to be a good markup citizen.
The size of the presentation holds back proper markup. Even outstanding citizens like the guy who can't spell Brian and the guy who can't spell Maverick argue against the ==Header==, largely because it is ugly, and it is in most browsers.
I understand some browsers may not cooperate, but we can certainly change the default presentation style on our end, can't we?
Tom Parmenter Ortolan88
drop the font size a bit, and could we also remove most of the space after too? at the moment == headers seem to stand alone, isolated from both the para above and below.
Tom Parmenter wrote:
The time has come to present the ==Header== in a more modest type face. People are beginning to use it consistently, but it is still godawful big and I am tired of apologizing for it every time I write about how to be a good markup citizen.
The size of the presentation holds back proper markup. Even outstanding citizens like the guy who can't spell Brian and the guy who can't spell Maverick argue against the ==Header==, largely because it is ugly, and it is in most browsers.
actually, I saw Mav change a 3= to a 2= recently :)
I understand some browsers may not cooperate, but we can certainly change the default presentation style on our end, can't we?
tarquin wrote:
drop the font size a bit,
I dropped the large header sizes so they're not so freakin' huge (and increased the small header sizes, so they're no longer smaller than the body text!) Note that it's now hard to tell the levels apart. Better suggestions are welcome.
and could we also remove most of the space after too? at the moment == headers seem to stand alone, isolated from both the para above and below.
We did that a long time ago; headers have a bottom margin of zero. If you don't put in a paragraph break, they directly abut the following text. Eg:
== Header == There is no break between the header above and this text.
== Other header ==
But this one, there is.
-- brion vibber (brion@ pobox.com)
Brion Vibber wrote:
tarquin wrote:
drop the font size a bit,
I dropped the large header sizes so they're not so freakin' huge (and increased the small header sizes, so they're no longer smaller than the body text!) Note that it's now hard to tell the levels apart. Better suggestions are welcome.
Personally, I think that the "==" headers are too small now, and in particular were better the way that they were before. I'm probably in a minority position there, however ^_^.
and could we also remove most of the space after too? at the moment == headers seem to stand alone, isolated from both the para above and below.
We did that a long time ago; headers have a bottom margin of zero. If you don't put in a paragraph break, they directly abut the following text.
But remember that this works only in those browsers (most, so far) that don't render the HTML correctly (according to W3C). And along the same lines, it can't even be done in XHTML. I think that it would work better if the same wiki markup were implemented in HTML in different ways using style sheets, if this is possible.
-- Toby
Toby Bartels wrote:
Personally, I think that the "==" headers are too small now, and in particular were better the way that they were before. I'm probably in a minority position there, however ^_^.
So far it's you versus dozens of whiners over the last few months. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. ;)
and could we also remove most of the space after too? at the moment == headers seem to stand alone, isolated from both the para above and below.
We did that a long time ago; headers have a bottom margin of zero. If you don't put in a paragraph break, they directly abut the following text.
But remember that this works only in those browsers (most, so far) that don't render the HTML correctly (according to W3C). And along the same lines, it can't even be done in XHTML. I think that it would work better if the same wiki markup were implemented in HTML in different ways using style sheets, if this is possible.
I'm not sure I follow you, so I'll make something up that sounds like what I think you want.
What we could theoretically do is create an alternate paragraph style that has no top margin, and explicitly use it when we start up text that immediately abuts a header; I think this should give the desired results by the book.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Brion Vibber wrote:
Toby Bartels wrote:
Personally, I think that the "==" headers are too small now, and in particular were better the way that they were before. I'm probably in a minority position there, however ^_^.
So far it's you versus dozens of whiners over the last few months. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. ;)
I didn't squeak before because I didn't think that it'd look this bad! But the result is probably just; I'm not going to squeak any more now.
Brion Vibber wrote:
We did that a long time ago; headers have a bottom margin of zero. If you don't put in a paragraph break, they directly abut the following text.
But remember that this works only in those browsers (most, so far) that don't render the HTML correctly (according to W3C). And along the same lines, it can't even be done in XHTML. I think that it would work better if the same wiki markup were implemented in HTML in different ways using style sheets, if this is possible.
I'm not sure I follow you, so I'll make something up that sounds like what I think you want.
There was a more complete explanation, written when I had W3C web pages in front of me, on the feature request for that change at SourceForge. I don't know how to read closed feature requests, however.
What we could theoretically do is create an alternate paragraph style that has no top margin, and explicitly use it when we start up text that immediately abuts a header; I think this should give the desired results by the book.
I don't actually know CSS, so I don't know if that's what I want, but I agree that it *sounds* like what I want ^_^. Can we also do it for text that abuts lists and horizontal rules? And for bottom margins? If this does what I think it will do, then it'll be cool ^_^.
-- Toby
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